[Big Jim]

anyone here running aggressive tunes that show more than -2.0 or -3.0 ignition corrections? curious how those tunes are working out for those folks?
this ? is for those who are on stock bottom ends

 

[320icar]

if anyone wants to follow along, lets reference this datalog here datazap.me | 320icar | 11/21/20 test

question 1: "etc angle actual degrees" is our electronic throttle body. the computer uses our fly by wire throttle in conjunction with the wastegate to control boost. when i give it 100% throttle input, the throttle body and wastegate should be pushed pretty hard to get me to full boost as fast as possible. i am tuned to run ~21.5psi, but i peak at 25.5psi and taper down. my wastegate duty cycle peaks at 58%, drops down to 32% before desired boost is reached, and then levels off at about 50%. the computer, with no change to my throttle pedal input, will also open and close the butterfly valve to meter how much boost the turbo will make.

i assume the "etc angle" is a read out of degrees, where 0° would be a closed butterfly valve and 90° would be a fully open one. on the datalog it never showed more than 82° for ETC angle. does that mean my car never actually gave me full throttle input? or is that just the max throttle value.

question 2: how many perimeters can we datalog at at time? stratified wants 22 specific things, but i'd also like to log a few more thats not on the list (oil temps, HPFP psi etc)

 

[BigFatFlip]

question 1: i assume the "etc angle" is a read out of degrees, where 0° would be a closed butterfly valve and 90° would be a fully open one. on the datalog it never showed more than 82° for ETC angle. does that mean my car never actually gave me full throttle input? or is that just the max throttle value.

question 2: how many perimeters can we datalog at at time? stratified wants 22 specific things, but i'd also like to log a few more thats not on the list (oil temps, HPFP psi etc)

question 1: I think your throttle body is opening completely. Looking at my previous datalogs (not just on the RS but on all previously tuned cars), most actually never completely go down to 0 or up to 90. They all usually hover around 80-84 deg when fully open.

question 2: I don't know the exact number, but I think you are very close. I usually use the stratified datalog parameters when logging too, and on my recent attempt to diagnose some issues, I've tried to add some more parameters to log but ended up with the "too many parameters" error. I would guess it was no more than 3-4 additional parameters I added.

 

[Madokami]

question 2: how many perimeters can we datalog at at time? stratified wants 22 specific things, but i'd also like to log a few more thats not on the list (oil temps, HPFP psi etc)

I think it depends on what you're logging. When I got a tune from Panda Motorworks, I logged maybe 3 less parameters than I did with Stratified and 3 different ones that Stratified doesn't ask for, but I couldn't display extra parameters on screen that I had no trouble displaying before.

 

[JamoRS]

if anyone wants to follow along, lets reference this datalog here datazap.me | 320icar | 11/21/20 test

question 1: "etc angle actual degrees" is our electronic throttle body. the computer uses our fly by wire throttle in conjunction with the wastegate to control boost. when i give it 100% throttle input, the throttle body and wastegate should be pushed pretty hard to get me to full boost as fast as possible. i am tuned to run ~21.5psi, but i peak at 25.5psi and taper down. my wastegate duty cycle peaks at 58%, drops down to 32% before desired boost is reached, and then levels off at about 50%. the computer, with no change to my throttle pedal input, will also open and close the butterfly valve to meter how much boost the turbo will make.

i assume the "etc angle" is a read out of degrees, where 0° would be a closed butterfly valve and 90° would be a fully open one. on the datalog it never showed more than 82° for ETC angle. does that mean my car never actually gave me full throttle input? or is that just the max throttle value.

question 2: how many perimeters can we datalog at at time? stratified wants 22 specific things, but i'd also like to log a few more thats not on the list (oil temps, HPFP psi etc)

82° is the throttle fully open according to the Cobb tuning guide that Big Fat Flip posted elsewhere

 

[320icar]

Been waiting to read that article but a baby doesn’t give me time to read lol. Thanks!

 

[SUBAFST]

Not data zips but just downloaded Log Dyno on iPhone and input some of my final datalogs for stock and e30. Lmk if you think the corrections are/seem weird. The STD correction made them seem very inflated. Wheels size, drag coefficient and frontal area all accounted for. Opted for aux fuel so I could run e85. Should have some data soon.

I think 16 Ford Focus RS Grey
Eibach Sways /Catless Dp /Adamtuned Auxfuel Kit/ Cobb AdamTuned/ Dsc Sport Controller/ Radium PcV CC./K+N air filter /Tema 4x4 30mm spacer/e85/massive sway endlinks//

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[320icar]

Question with you guys who have more experience with this platform. So I got my 91/94 wmi base tune. Car feels amazing. Did all the datalogs for 4 different map slots. Just loaded the first revision on yesterday so it’s going to take some time for the car to adjust and learn, but I did a quick 4th gear run anyways.

datazap.me | 320icar | 02/19/21 94+wmi revision 2

datazap.me

mods: intake box/filter, intercooler, piping, BOV, catless DP.
Stock: catback exhaust, wastegate actuator, intake piping, turbo

Timing will get a little more aggressive as the car learns and adjusts. What does concern me is my pressure drop. Boost builds quick no problem, and I don’t even get full electronic throttle until 5000rpm. But once I do get full throttle, I consistently have a 2psi drop from 5000rpm to 6500rpm. Wastegate duty cycle does go up from 52% to 59% but it still drops. This is the same over all 4 map slots (91/94, with/without wmi)

so my question is, is that just the OEM turbo running out of breath? The measured mass of air at redline consistently shows 48-49lb/min. Or is this just hitting the limit of the stock exhaust and WGA. Or maybe there is a leak somewhere in the system? If other guys don’t have an issue holding 26/27psi then I might have to invest in a smoke machine.

input is appreciated. I like my stock exhaust and my car is a daily, I don’t want to deal with a loud exhaust. Cops here are worse than California (not kidding). Also I hear the WGA is a nightmare to install and truly have no interest in doing it.

 

[SUBAFST]

Question with you guys who have more experience with this platform. So I got my 91/94 wmi base tune. Car feels amazing. Did all the datalogs for 4 different map slots. Just loaded the first revision on yesterday so it’s going to take some time for the car to adjust and learn, but I did a quick 4th gear run anyways.

datazap.me | 320icar | 02/19/21 94+wmi revision 2

datazap.me

mods: intake box/filter, intercooler, piping, BOV, catless DP.
Stock: catback exhaust, wastegate actuator, intake piping, turbo

Timing will get a little more aggressive as the car learns and adjusts. What does concern me is my pressure drop. Boost builds quick no problem, and I don’t even get full electronic throttle until 5000rpm. But once I do get full throttle, I consistently have a 2psi drop from 5000rpm to 6500rpm. Wastegate duty cycle does go up from 52% to 59% but it still drops. This is the same over all 4 map slots (91/94, with/without wmi)

so my question is, is that just the OEM turbo running out of breath? The measured mass of air at redline consistently shows 48-49lb/min. Or is this just hitting the limit of the stock exhaust and WGA. Or maybe there is a leak somewhere in the system? If other guys don’t have an issue holding 26/27psi then I might have to invest in a smoke machine.

input is appreciated. I like my stock exhaust and my car is a daily, I don’t want to deal with a loud exhaust. Cops here are worse than California (not kidding). Also I hear the WGA is a nightmare to install and truly have no interest in doing it.

My car holds 25psi to redline with WGA without it was 22-23 after 5800. My boost is limited to 25psi so idk if it would hold 28-30 but I think so

. Wga install is nothing compared to dp. Same process with the same things removed it’s easy to get In there and change it.

Just charge pipe windshield wipers and the usual for that location. 10-20 mins removal max plus install and 20 mins back.

Well you had a couple throttle closures probably due to calculated torque (probably) or boost and what the tuner set torque max. My tuner asks for different data logging parameters so it depends which boost logic you’re tuner chose. Cobb has a custom logic that overrides the over 200 ford tables. Some tuners us fords so they look at different things.


16 Ford Focus RS Grey
Eibach Sways /Adamtuned Auxfuel Kit/ Cobb AdamTuned/ Dsc Sport Controller/ Radium PcV CC./ K+N air filter /Tema 4x4 30mm spacer/massive sway endlinks//Full Race IC// Tune Plus Turbosmart IWG/ E76/ NGK LTR7BHX (95605) 1-step colder Ruthenium Spark Plugs

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SUBAFST]

Question with you guys who have more experience with this platform. So I got my 91/94 wmi base tune. Car feels amazing. Did all the datalogs for 4 different map slots. Just loaded the first revision on yesterday so it’s going to take some time for the car to adjust and learn, but I did a quick 4th gear run anyways.

datazap.me | 320icar | 02/19/21 94+wmi revision 2

datazap.me

mods: intake box/filter, intercooler, piping, BOV, catless DP.
Stock: catback exhaust, wastegate actuator, intake piping, turbo

Timing will get a little more aggressive as the car learns and adjusts. What does concern me is my pressure drop. Boost builds quick no problem, and I don’t even get full electronic throttle until 5000rpm. But once I do get full throttle, I consistently have a 2psi drop from 5000rpm to 6500rpm. Wastegate duty cycle does go up from 52% to 59% but it still drops. This is the same over all 4 map slots (91/94, with/without wmi)

so my question is, is that just the OEM turbo running out of breath? The measured mass of air at redline consistently shows 48-49lb/min. Or is this just hitting the limit of the stock exhaust and WGA. Or maybe there is a leak somewhere in the system? If other guys don’t have an issue holding 26/27psi then I might have to invest in a smoke machine.

input is appreciated. I like my stock exhaust and my car is a daily, I don’t want to deal with a loud exhaust. Cops here are worse than California (not kidding). Also I hear the WGA is a nightmare to install and truly have no interest in doing it.

Timing is on par and if you want you should log tip abs max and tip abs desired and ltt torque max


16 Ford Focus RS Grey
Eibach Sways /Adamtuned Auxfuel Kit/ Cobb AdamTuned/ Dsc Sport Controller/ Radium PcV CC./ K+N air filter /Tema 4x4 30mm spacer/massive sway endlinks//Full Race IC// Tune Plus Turbosmart IWG/ E76/ NGK LTR7BHX (95605) 1-step colder Ruthenium Spark Plugs

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SUBAFST]

Question with you guys who have more experience with this platform. So I got my 91/94 wmi base tune. Car feels amazing. Did all the datalogs for 4 different map slots. Just loaded the first revision on yesterday so it’s going to take some time for the car to adjust and learn, but I did a quick 4th gear run anyways.

datazap.me | 320icar | 02/19/21 94+wmi revision 2

datazap.me

mods: intake box/filter, intercooler, piping, BOV, catless DP.
Stock: catback exhaust, wastegate actuator, intake piping, turbo

Timing will get a little more aggressive as the car learns and adjusts. What does concern me is my pressure drop. Boost builds quick no problem, and I don’t even get full electronic throttle until 5000rpm. But once I do get full throttle, I consistently have a 2psi drop from 5000rpm to 6500rpm. Wastegate duty cycle does go up from 52% to 59% but it still drops. This is the same over all 4 map slots (91/94, with/without wmi)

so my question is, is that just the OEM turbo running out of breath? The measured mass of air at redline consistently shows 48-49lb/min. Or is this just hitting the limit of the stock exhaust and WGA. Or maybe there is a leak somewhere in the system? If other guys don’t have an issue holding 26/27psi then I might have to invest in a smoke machine.

input is appreciated. I like my stock exhaust and my car is a daily, I don’t want to deal with a loud exhaust. Cops here are worse than California (not kidding). Also I hear the WGA is a nightmare to install and truly have no interest in doing it.

You should also look at wdgc actual/final in comparison to the wgdc base bc there are compensations


16 Ford Focus RS Grey
Eibach Sways /Adamtuned Auxfuel Kit/ Cobb AdamTuned/ Dsc Sport Controller/ Radium PcV CC./ K+N air filter /Tema 4x4 30mm spacer/massive sway endlinks//Full Race IC// Tune Plus Turbosmart IWG/ E76/ NGK LTR7BHX (95605) 1-step colder Ruthenium Spark Plugs

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[axelr]

A remark: Ttl torque final is an intermediate internal value that the pcm computes. Ttl means torque to load and it’s a table-based translation that is made very early, mostly based on the driver torque demand. It later gets transformed, clamped and compensated in various ways and does not reflect the engine’s torque output. I’ve seen posters here assume this was the estimated torque produced by the engine. A log shows 530lbf (718Nm) for that value at 6200rpm. That would amount to 625hp, not bad for a CAI, some boost pipes, and a WGA 🙂

Nevertheless, it was enlightening to see what others are logging, it gives great insights regarding how the tunes are made. I’ll be adding a couple of fields to my own logs.

 

[RSt~n~peace]

Question with you guys who have more experience with this platform. So I got my 91/94 wmi base tune. Car feels amazing. Did all the datalogs for 4 different map slots. Just loaded the first revision on yesterday so it’s going to take some time for the car to adjust and learn, but I did a quick 4th gear run anyways.

datazap.me | 320icar | 02/19/21 94+wmi revision 2

datazap.me

mods: intake box/filter, intercooler, piping, BOV, catless DP.
Stock: catback exhaust, wastegate actuator, intake piping, turbo

Timing will get a little more aggressive as the car learns and adjusts. What does concern me is my pressure drop. Boost builds quick no problem, and I don’t even get full electronic throttle until 5000rpm. But once I do get full throttle, I consistently have a 2psi drop from 5000rpm to 6500rpm. Wastegate duty cycle does go up from 52% to 59% but it still drops. This is the same over all 4 map slots (91/94, with/without wmi)

so my question is, is that just the OEM turbo running out of breath? The measured mass of air at redline consistently shows 48-49lb/min. Or is this just hitting the limit of the stock exhaust and WGA. Or maybe there is a leak somewhere in the system? If other guys don’t have an issue holding 26/27psi then I might have to invest in a smoke machine.

input is appreciated. I like my stock exhaust and my car is a daily, I don’t want to deal with a loud exhaust. Cops here are worse than California (not kidding). Also I hear the WGA is a nightmare to install and truly have no interest in doing it.

It’s the first revision... I’d give it some time.

Smart tuners walk up the power. It can be time consuming, but it’s the smarter way to do it.

But top end the RS’ turbo is not efficient.

Having installed the TS WGA and uninstalled it. I’ll say it’s probably not worth the trouble. Once it’s in there, you can’t run a stock tune without risking damage. So if you have an issue or any other reason to go back to a stock tune, you can’t without swapping back the WGA.

Some tuners don’t even recommend an “upgraded” WGA.

 

[SUBAFST]

A remark: Ttl torque final is an intermediate internal value that the pcm computes. Ttl means torque to load and it’s a table-based translation that is made very early, mostly based on the driver torque demand. It later gets transformed, clamped and compensated in various ways and does not reflect the engine’s torque output. I’ve seen posters here assume this was the estimated torque produced by the engine. A log shows 530lbf (718Nm) for that value at 6200rpm. That would amount to 625hp, not bad for a CAI, some boost pipes, and a WGA [emoji846]

Nevertheless, it was enlightening to see what others are logging, it gives great insights regarding how the tunes are made. I’ll be adding a couple of fields to my own logs.

My ltt toque equates to exactly what I dynod.

Estimated torque was over 500
My ltt torque max is set at 425 my highest dyno was 429 and on that run my etc was cut. I think it’s accurate.


16 Ford Focus RS Grey
Eibach Sways /Adamtuned Auxfuel Kit/ Cobb AdamTuned/ Dsc Sport Controller/ Radium PcV CC./ K+N air filter /Tema 4x4 30mm spacer/massive sway endlinks//Full Race IC// Tune Plus Turbosmart IWG/ E76/ NGK LTR7BHX (95605) 1-step colder Ruthenium Spark Plugs DynoJet 8-Run Avg (417.23wtq/399.26whp)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[axelr]

That is still an input value that is passed down the long chain of calculations, just taken a little further down than the earlier raw Torque-To-Load input.

The value you are looking at is the output of the first stage of calculations, that is fed further down and used as the basis for the load calculation, which is the second in the chain and the first of several more stages.

When everything goes well, the demand is met and you see a correlation. If at some point the PCM decides to reduce the load it aims for, the engine output will be affected but the (earlier) torque demand you are looking at won’t.

I can see why a tuner might want to verify that value was not clamped already, but it’s not and by far the last word regarding what the engine might actually produce.

The PCM estimates the actual output, and it’s called "Estimated Torque". There is also "Est. Horsepower". These are the fields that reflects the result of everything and that should be logged to estimate the output.

Be aware, though, that some tuners modify some of the core parameters that ultimately affects the calculations of all torque and load demands and estimations, and as such also affect the estimated output. I don’t know why they do that, as this changes the understanding the PCM has of the engine without actually changing the engine, but it is what it is.

 

[SUBAFST]

That is still an input value that is passed down the long chain of calculations, just taken a little further down than the earlier raw Torque-To-Load input.

The value you are looking at is the output of the first stage of calculations, that is fed further down and used as the basis for the load calculation, which is the second in the chain and the first of several more stages.

When everything goes well, the demand is met and you see a correlation. If at some point the PCM decides to reduce the load it aims for, the engine output will be affected but the (earlier) torque demand you are looking at won’t.

I can see why a tuner might want to verify that value was not clamped already, but it’s not and by far the last word regarding what the engine might actually produce.

The PCM estimates the actual output, and it’s called "Estimated Torque". There is also "Est. Horsepower". These are the fields that reflects the result of everything and that should be logged to estimate the output.

Be aware, though, that some tuners modify some of the core parameters that ultimately affects the calculations of all torque and load demands and estimations, and as such also affect the estimated output. I don’t know why they do that, as this changes the understanding the PCM has of the engine without actually changing the engine, but it is what it is.

Well actually that makes a lot of sense.

Edit: In terms of why the tuner would want an output that is more functional based on the inputs.


16 Ford Focus RS Grey
Eibach Sways /Adamtuned Auxfuel Kit/ Cobb AdamTuned/ Dsc Sport Controller/ Radium PcV CC./ K+N air filter /Tema 4x4 30mm spacer/massive sway endlinks//Full Race IC// Tune Plus Turbosmart IWG/ E76/ NGK LTR7BHX (95605) 1-step colder Ruthenium Spark Plugs DynoJet 8-Run Avg (417.23wtq/399.26whp)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sickflo_rs]

Just moved to east coast and cant get my hands on any 93-94 OCT so I had to retune

Here's a 2nd revision log. What do you gurus make of it?

datazap.me | Sickflo_rs | Rev B 3rd

datazap.me

 

[axelr]

Just moved to east coast and cant get my hands on any 93-94 OCT so I had to retune

Here's a 2nd revision log. What do you gurus make of it?

datazap.me | Sickflo_rs | Rev B 3rd

datazap.me

The log looks good. The car should pull steadily with a little extra hump starting from 4200 or so. Nothing earth-shattering as the boost is moderate, basically no more boost than the peak OE levels, but more spread out and (more or less) constant over the rev range, instead of just a short term bump as in the OE "overboost".

It runs super-rich like OE and nothing looks crazy. I'd not fear for the engine or anything with this map. It's a moderate tune, and there is nothing wrong with it while at the same time it's not particularly impressive, it just does the job and that's already a lot. If you want to go fast with that tune, don't forget to pull every gear to 6500rpm.