[RSt~n~peace]

Damn. I went and took a look at post 2. Didn’t see anything scrolling through pics 1-4 looking at them for something small. Looking for what happened to @axelr . Got to 5 and thought something was off. Saw 6 and couldn’t believe it. I know I saw the pictures before, but I definitely didn’t look for issues especially something so ridiculous. I guess this is why many pistons have have an arrow on top. Luckily they gave you irrefutable evidence by taking pictures. Giving you proof it was their fault. Bet they’ll stop sending pictures… Too many of these companies just say, well 🤷‍♂️ no warranty, but that doesn’t relieve them from negligence. I also know the frustration of them wanting everything back so “they can fix it”. It’s like why should you believe they’ll do any better the second time around. I know of at least 8 “built” engines that the owners either had so many issues they just gave up and installed a stock motor or the engines had a total failure. At this point I’ve seen issues or failures from every company I know who builds RS motors.

The RS is the last late model car I’ll build. My next new car will be everything I want from the factory. Boring, but without the drama.

If I build another car I’ll do it myself but it’ll also be a dedicated project car.

I don’t have confidence in any of the builders and don’t have time or patience to fix their mistakes.

 

[hyracer]

Wow, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't been following your thread. We as a RS fraternity, truly feel your pain, anger, and emotions.
If it was me, I'd drop a stock block in it and unload it as fast as I could. Sadly, time to get a different car and move on.

 

[its_awd]

This sounds like an expensive, never ending nightmare. Oof

 

[CajunBuild]

I have long been a lurker here but never posted. This nightmare of a story compelled me to post. I've been on the fence between choosing Esslinger or Livernois. I think my decision is made now. What if I had a problem? Is this how they are going to deal with their customers?

 

[jefferysanders]

They'd be pulling my reversed foot out of their ass...at least this explains why your engine VCT was never correct, never able to be tuned correctly (your tuner had no clue the cams were pipers), and you are going to get it rectified eventually. Covid has ****ed up all kinds of stuff and likely is causing delays for your return. That being said I feel they should send out a new long block regardless and just take what they get back...clearly a lot of mistakes were made and if that's atypical of their shop they need to prove that to keep my potential business as well as other's who were interested in doing a build. It would be nice to find a engine builder that would be willing to do a group buy type deal. I'm building mine as soon as the supply chain recovers from Covid and the Cybertruck lands in the garage.

 

[naderpug]

Man after reading this thread I reckon you should just write a book about the journey. You know just to inspire car nuts to learn how to build their own engines. Many moons ago, I did my apprenticeship as an engine builder and left the trade shortly after completion, but it gave me the skills to carry on tinkering (minus access to big machinery). In my experience, the well known engine builders generally work in factory like conditions with workers and parts scattered everywhere, scrambling to meet delivery targets. It’s rarely the mythical racing or meticulous and efficient setup that we are often left to believe. It’s clear you have the skills and handy friends, I think you can build it much better yourself. I believe in you mate.

 

[Sickflo_rs]

I went through a similar issue with a clutch, flywheel and entire top end assembly about 10 years ago. Was a terrible stressful situation with thousands tied up in failed components. Ended up selling the entire project just due to the sheer amount of stress it caused. It's terrible the way they're handling this as well. It's CLEARLY their error in many ways, and still not covering it 100 percent no questions asked shows what type of business they like to run. As soon as the money is out of your pocket, they couldn't care less. A monkey could have assembled that better.

 

[mexrs]

I also know the frustration of them wanting everything back so “they can fix it”. It’s like why should you believe they’ll do any better the second time around. I know of at least 8 “built” engines that the owners either had so many issues they just gave up and installed a stock motor or the engines had a total failure. At this point I’ve seen issues or failures from every company I know who builds RS motors.

The RS is the last late model car I’ll build. My next new car will be everything I want from the factory. Boring, but without the drama.

You are right, after thinking about it the only idea I would keep coming back to is, how can I be sure that they do a better job the second time around. I understand engines blowing due to tunes, abuse, fueling issues etc, but i don't understand this Esslinger Engine build 🤷‍♂️ .

Even if i was in the US, and same city as them, a refund should 100 % been an alternative option as it was a pretty bad misstake on their part from the start as such a misstake makes them loose credibility on a second build.

Even a refund higher than what i paid would have been fair to compensate for time and money wasted, even to all you members here who trouble shooted on the forum lol.

They'd be pulling my reversed foot out of their ass...at least this explains why your engine VCT was never correct, never able to be tuned correctly (your tuner had no clue the cams were pipers), and you are going to get it rectified eventually. Covid has ****ed up all kinds of stuff and likely is causing delays for your return. That being said I feel they should send out a new long block regardless and just take what they get back...clearly a lot of mistakes were made and if that's atypical of their shop they need to prove that to keep my potential business as well as other's who were interested in doing a build. It would be nice to find a engine builder that would be willing to do a group buy type deal. I'm building mine as soon as the supply chain recovers from Covid and the Cybertruck lands in the garage.

Exactly, I gave my tuner the specs of the Esslinger cams. (they say they are within 2 degrees difference of the p285 piper cams and when i mentioned that their spec sheet and the piper cam spec sheet are more than 2 degrees. I was told "cam specs are measured at different lift than what ours are spec'd at" Either case, not what i ordered.

Man after reading this thread I reckon you should just write a book about the journey. You know just to inspire car nuts to learn how to build their own engines. Many moons ago, I did my apprenticeship as an engine builder and left the trade shortly after completion, but it gave me the skills to carry on tinkering (minus access to big machinery). In my experience, the well known engine builders generally work in factory like conditions with workers and parts scattered everywhere, scrambling to meet delivery targets. It’s rarely the mythical racing or meticulous and efficient setup that we are often left to believe. It’s clear you have the skills and handy friends, I think you can build it much better yourself. I believe in you mate.

Exactly, that is what i have come to conclude as well. Does not matter if a company has 50 years or 3 years. The person building an engine for all we know could be someone a company just hired. But in my case i feel like it was some intern learning or someone was drunk that day.

A monkey could have assembled that better.

He was busy.

 

[Timbo]

Welp..., I'm still quite far from doing engine swaps/rebuilds. Car is still stock and I'm considering fbo later this year when black friday deals hit again. But when the time comes for anything involving engine rebuilding/swapping...Esslinger is off the list for this car or any future cars. That's crazy. 12k for that engine, probably rather go mountune or speedperformance 2L stroked to 2.3L. Maybe even just send the block off for machine work then rebuild it DIY style with the service manual. Hindsight is a b$#&% though and you took a mean bullet for the community with this one. I think if they're going to cover all costs to rectify the problem, you should let them. I think anyone using 2.3 ecoboosts and looking into rebuilds/swaps uses this forum, more than likely gonna see this thread and it's gonna do Esslinger some real damage.

 

[mexrs]

...... I think if they're going to cover all costs to rectify the problem, you should let them. I think anyone using 2.3 ecoboosts and looking into rebuilds/swaps uses this forum, more than likely gonna see this thread and it's gonna do Esslinger some real damage.

As posted in my update, they offered only one solution (took them a while to even offer a solution) and that was to get the engine to their shop. I sent it, and got stuck in export.

A month later I got fed up and tried to get alternative resolution and they held firm with the only solution being getting engine to their shop.

Also, during that time I started to analyze the situation and started to feel uncomfortable having them fix the mess to begin with, especially after having been told we might be able to reuse those pistons.

People do reuse them, but I didn't pay to have to reuse possible fixed pistons so they can save money on their mess.

The solution provider by Esslinger Engineering was one that would take more time and also be be the most expenssive than just sending a new engine to a USA address or a refund and call it a day.

Eventually they will see this thread. I wonder if person in charge was even made aware of the mess.

I couldn't care less about a refund at this point but if a solution does come around I would update the thread.👍

 

[axelr]

Esslinger or not, the aftermarket is what it is. People (including me) dream of race engines but most don't realize the true cost of an actual race engine that is actually built right and performs reliably over a specified number of kilometers under load.

I just want to give some perspective, using prices (for another modern GDI 4-cyl powerplant) that can be found online:

• Engine assembly: 54,952 euro
• Water pump: 2,226 euro
• Oil pump, catch cans: 6,522 euro
• Throttle and intake manifold: 5,889 euro
• Intercooler and pipes: 7,084 euro
• Turbo: 5,917 euro

That's a cool 82,000 euro / $90,000 for a 1.6L 4-cylinder with the important accessories, R5/Rally2 specs, approximately 280hp (with restrictor.)

I omitted the ECU / harness (6,380 euro / $7,766) as we typically use the OE ones on our "built" cars, 28’000 euro for the differentials, another 30’000 for the gearbox and so on and so forth. They really have "more than one hundred grand under the hood" - for real.

I think we (and that includes me) should get to grips with reality and understand how far $12K gets us. The piston orientation is a gross mistake and they should take responsibility for it but the grass is not any greener anywhere else you look in the aftermarket landscape.

Every builder has built lemons, every tuner has blown many engines. One of the posters above said he'd avoid Esslinger and go for X or Y, but I have a similar story (new long block -> catastrophic engine failure due to an assembly error) that would instantly shrink that short list in half.

It think it boils down to "do they take responsibility for what it obviously their mistake?"

 

[RSt~n~peace]

You are right, after thinking about it the only idea I would keep coming back to is, how can I be sure that they do a better job the second time around. I understand engines blowing due to tunes, abuse, fueling issues etc, but i don't understand this Esslinger Engine build 🤷‍♂️ .

Even if i was in the US, and same city as them, a refund should 100 % been an alternative option as it was a pretty bad misstake on their part from the start as such a misstake makes them loose credibility on a second build.

Even a refund higher than what i paid would have been fair to compensate for time and money wasted, even to all you members here who trouble shooted on the forum lol.




Exactly, I gave my tuner the specs of the Esslinger cams. (they say they are within 2 degrees difference of the p285 piper cams and when i mentioned that their spec sheet and the piper cam spec sheet are more than 2 degrees. I was told "cam specs are measured at different lift than what ours are spec'd at" Either case, not what i ordered.




Exactly, that is what i have come to conclude as well. Does not matter if a company has 50 years or 3 years. The person building an engine for all we know could be someone a company just hired. But in my case i feel like it was some intern learning or someone was drunk that day.



He was busy.

View attachment 352156

I’m rooting for you! Hopefully everything works out and you’re cruising around in an awesome Focus RS soon! If nothing else, you probably have more experience than most Ford techs tearing apart, troubleshooting, and reassembling the RS.

 

[Big Jim]

One of the posters above said he'd avoid Esslinger and go for X or Y, but I have a similar story (new long block -> catastrophic engine failure due to an assembly error) that would instantly shrink that short list in half.

@axelr...why don't you just say who botched your build? would be useful info for the rest of us. also some details? thanks.

 

[Pezzar]

So here is the awaited update,

• Badly built Esslinger Engineering engine resulted in domino effect engine damage though out the engine.
• I am surprised it even lasted 3,500 miles

In the first post you can see pictures that Esslinger Engineering shared with me during the build process. I did not see anything odd, heck even people with experience apparently didn’t see anything odd or they would have pointed it out. Being that they have a good reputation I never accepted a possibility of any issue I had, as being related to the engine. (Stop reading here, go to post #2 and see if you can spot the issue)

Since day one after starting the engine I had a weird rattle noise when RPM would be held constant. I believe mentioned it in earlier posts. My mechanic friend said, something is not right. I said nah, just needs tuning. After all, Esslinger Engineering built it and did the brake-in on their bench dyno.

Consulting with Brian at Esslinger Engineering and showing them the logs, I was told to have my tuner change the min/max VCT degrees being requested as it was hitting 40 degrees (max). Was told to set it to 30 degrees and that it was odd since they have not heard of that issue before. Doing that, the engine stopped doing the audible noise. Maybe it did at higher rpm while driving (hard to hear) but parked and holding revs at 3000 rpm I no longer had noise.

I had engine hesitation at lower rpm but pulled pretty strong when I floored it. Assumed it was the tune and THEIR stage 3 cams. More on cams later.

I could never get the vacuum pump on cylinder head to not leak even after wasting more time replacing gasket several times eventually used “black right stuff” at autozone + gasket and stopped it. Now I see it was related to excessive pressure under valve cover.

I then noticed blow by early on that was getting into the cold air intake tube and accumulating under the air filter and I thought it was normal too. Not sure if I mentioned it in earlier post but when doing a WOT log, the moment I let go of the throttle I would notice a small faint puff.. cloud… from the front left side. Again.. thinking this is a solid Esslinger Engine…. I assumed a boost leak hitting ground and lifting dust but later found the oil under the filter, so I figured that was it. I decided, I needed a catch can. Got one and well…. That would fill up with an ounce for every 1 WOT 3rd gear run. Again, I thought Engine is fine. Must be PCV system needing mods to cope with higher boost. Esslinger at that point, when I told them I was collecting 1oz of oil in the catch can with ONE WOT I was told best to run vented catch cans. Tested by venting one end of both cans into a big soda bottle. Result was pretty much the same. It was weird as it was only happening on HIGH boost. Low boost, minimal oil in the can.

Spent money on equipment and did a compression test. Results were not that great but figured it was because engine was not at operating temperature. Also my denial of an issue since after all, Esslinger Engineering built it right?!

I then ordered a borescope to look down the spark plug hole. One of the cylinders was wet so I figured maybe head gasket also all spark plug threads had oil all the way up but no leak from the valve cover gasket into the spark plug holes…..

I then ordered a leak down tester kit and the result on 2 cylinders were of concern. When I tested one cylinder, I would eventually get bubbles in the coolant expansion reservoir so at that moment I concluded… headgasket and HOPED I was somehow pressurizing an oil passage in the cylinder head under higher boost. I figured it was an option since it is a 2L block… Ordered everything AND all kind of bolts that ford manual marks as one time use bolts.


Went to my friends shop to do the head gasket. He is a friend but I Pay him for letting me use the space since each lift is a source of income to the shop. I was all excited to do the head gasket in 3 days taking it easy.

So, off came the Cylinder head and here is a rundown of what was wrong with this Esslinger Engineering 2L Engine build.

HEAD GASKET

Had gasket issue detected at 5,000km probably started earlier. not sure on the cause but did track down another guy who had an Esslinger Engine that blew a head gasket during tuning process. I think maybe mine blew due to the sharp edges on the psiton following valve contact.

This causes hot spots prone to super heating and can cause pre ignition.


CAMSHAFTS

I had P285 PIPER CAMS!!! WTF. I was supposed to have Esslinger cams in my Ford Focus RS engine!! . The reply I got when I sent the message was. “We couldn’t get our cams in time on your build. The piper cams we bought are almost the same exact specs. Like within 2 degrees! So we bought those to not hold up the build” I should have been told but instead they didn’t tell me.

1. One of the intake cam lobes had visual damage and so did the cam bucket of that lobe.
2. They were NOT the cams that should have been installed. I did not order PiperCams.
3. I checked clearances only on intake as it had the lobe damage and they were not what Piper Cam requires, heck they were not even what they said they set them to. It was 0.005” and Lee at PiperCams told me it should be 0.010”. Also Lee at Piper cams told me “tolerances that you are running will cause this issue.” Esslinger however, tells me "Valve lash set to 0.006-0.008" on intake. That is where we have the best results in our experience. The 2 tight lobes could be loosened up a bit but even at 0.005" won't have any issues"
   
   Even going by “what they set it to” It was not set to that . 🤷‍♂️ . Was even told "we can exchange them if you want"

View attachment 352079

View attachment 352080

View attachment 352082
View attachment 352083



PISTON ORIENTATIONS

• All 4 pistons were installed BACKWARDS! Esslinger Engineering put the pistons on backwards. I could not believe it. BACKWARDS F.F.S. The fuel bowl was now on the exhaust side instead of intake side where the injector sprays.

In my first post in this thread, you can see the pictures… installed backwards. The piston has intake and exhaust valve cut outs. Intake side cutouts are shallower than exhaust side. Since they installed them BACKWARDS. Since day one…. That noise was… yupp valve to piston contact on all 4 pistons on the exhaust side.

When they brake-in the engine on their bench dyno, they do NOT run VCT. So the camphasers are position zero and reason why it ran perfect. Not sure how to explain it but basically when I hooked up the engine the ECU of the RS activated the variable timing component of the camphasers and it was enough to start the process to kill the engine… slow death in my case since I put low miles over the course of a year.

View attachment 352084

View attachment 352085



I BEAM BEARINGS

• I beam bearings. I only checked the bearings on the I beam to the crank shaft…. Caput too. I would expect the crank shaft bearings have damage too.

View attachment 352086

Looking at the bearings and camshaft lobe damage, It looks to me like they may have assembled dry with no assembly lube

 

[mexrs]

It think it boils down to "do they take responsibility for what it obviously their mistake?"

I feel they could have been more flexible based on the circumstances of their build and their customer support was lacking.

I’m rooting for you! Hopefully everything works out and you’re cruising around in an awesome Focus RS soon! If nothing else, you probably have more experience than most Ford techs tearing apart, troubleshooting, and reassembling the RS.

I can see me back on the road in 2021

 

[axelr]

@axelr...why don't you just say who botched your build? would be useful info for the rest of us. also some details? thanks.

I will. I have not contacted them (real life called) but I’ll soon. I’ve taken a bunch of pictures. I need to find the time and then see how they handle it. What they did is they installed pistons that had slightly longer skirts than stock, without the relief that gives clearance to the oil jet pipes. Result: one rotation and all jets broke, two jets completely disappeared (pieces of metal in the oil pickup) and the corresponding pistons fried.

 

[mexrs]

I will. I have not contacted them (real life called) but I’ll soon. I’ve taken a bunch of pictures. I need to find the time and then see how they handle it. What they did is they installed pistons that had slightly longer skirts than stock, without the relief that gives clearance to the oil jet pipes. Result: one rotation and all jets broke, two jets completely disappeared (pieces of metal in the oil pickup) and the corresponding pistons fried.

Makes sense to first see what they offer as a solution. That too calls for full refund no questions asked as one option.

 

[GmpaJimj]

This comes back to the old saying, make someone happy, they will tell a friend, make someone mad, they will tell 10 friends.
It would be interesting to know what happened at the resulting meeting. Parts backwards? Wrong parts? They know who did the work.
Anything outside complete settlement to the customer satisfaction, would keep me awake at night.
This is a small example, why I chose not to follow my family in the private sector. There‘s stuff going on out there you wouldn’t believe.
I hope they step up for both of you.

 

[mexrs]

This comes back to the old saying, make someone happy, they will tell a friend, make someone mad, they will tell 10 friends.
It would be interesting to know what happened at the resulting meeting. Parts backwards? Wrong parts? They know who did the work.
Anything outside complete settlement to the customer satisfaction, would keep me awake at night.
This is a small example, why I chose not to follow my family in the private sector. There‘s stuff going on out there you wouldn’t believe.
I hope they step up for both of you.

In 2021, make some unhappy tell friends, family, and the internet. I doubt Esslinger Engineering will contact me. Have not heard back from them after telling them i no longer will be needing an engine and based on back and forth communication since i detected the issue, i honestly am not expecting any reply or anything.

 

[mexrs]

So just here to vent some more 🍿🍻

When I first noticed the piston crown damage and told Esslinger, this is the reply I got when they assumed it was je pistons fault and not their fault.

It is funny that knowing I had valve to piston damage.... their solution was ... send us those defective pistons to get them replaced by Je pistons IF 🤣🤣.

I WAS expected to pay to pull engine, to ship them back the pistons, to install new ones, new gaskets, bearings, hone cylinderwalls for new rings, valve damage, etc etc time and money.

With their 50 year experience somehow assume that piston to valve contact would not cause any damage other than need new pistons. because they assumed it was je pistons fault, they also assumed it is not their problem. 🤣🖕

** Anyone new reading, here is the full story what happens when esslinger installs pistons backwards.