The soon to be released Revo stage 2 tune seems very close to that with no adds on during testing in the UK https://mk3focusrs.club/forum/topic/revo-technik-stage-2-software/

 

Cursory observation indicates that the Revo tune is approximately 420 bhp, not whp.

 

Its actually 360bhp at the wheels!!

 

He's running a tune with an exhaust, filter, and IC. But yeah, its fairly close to 400. 420 bhp with no supporting mods would seem a little ridiculous, IMO.

I'd like to see if anyone can get to the 400 whp mark on pump gas, reliably. Not really sure if its possible on the stock turbo.

 

Its possible to get there, but our motors are what is stopping us from getting too close due to the heaps of low end torque that we have, it stresses the rods. I would think its possible, and definitely possible with some Methanol, Ethanol or race gas.

Deadhook motorsports made 385whp/414wtq on e50 with a downpipe/intercooler/WGA/port injection. and they made numerous 360-370whp tunes on a completely stock car.
Again, I think its possible, but probably not on pump gas without some sort of additional fuel or additive.

 

@bludrgn.

 

I was very likely in excess of 400 whp on the stock turbo when I was running ethanol. The issue with making that much whp is that your torque is also likely to be well into the 400s which is dangerous with stock internals from a long term reliability standpoint.

The number doesn't matter. Tune your car to run well within the limits of the fuel you have available and the engine's torque handling capacity. You'll hate the fact that you "made 400 whp" if you sling a rod through the block shortly thereafter.

 

is this exact motor and configuration used in another Ford application or something? I ask because I'm just curious how you all know the limits of this motor already

 

Ecoboost Rustang has been using it for several years. Google fu u some Livernois.

 

Realistically you may get close to 400whp in "ideal" conditions - ie very cold weather with race gas or ethanol blends.

The turbo is not comfortable flowing more than 380whp in 70+F ambient temperatures. The fuel system also starts to be close to its limits as you close in on 400whp and as you open the injection window close to the limit you start to get poor combustion which hurts power.

The stock car is comfortable in the 330-350whp range on pump gas and 350-370whp on race gas or ethanol with just a tune. The OEM parts flow reasonably well in the 300s which is nice.

The key to any build is knowing what the car will be used for. Keep in mind that the rear is over-driven. This is one of the reasons why the amount of power going back there has to be limited. If you put a lot of power to an over-driven rear end, it will feel very unstable.

Great fun car in the 300whp range with good reliability. I would have liked to see a slightly larger turbo - a 67-71mm compressor and this is why we are going with a hybrid 67mm compressor on our development vehicle. This will provide enough flow to crest above 400whp - it will offer 50-70whp above what the OEM turbo flows and it will be just about perfect for keeping the balance in the drivetrain and extending a flat 350-370wtq torque curve closer to redline

 

They can to an extent but without changing to a substantially larger turbo, the engine is going to want to make peak torque at a relatively low RPM. Great for drivability and fine when you're keeping your power goals reasonable. When you start trying to push 400 whp on the stock turbo long term, you're opening a can of worms.

The turbo simply isn't efficient at those power levels. In the testing I've done, much past 4500, the stock turbo begins to run out of steam quickly. I posted my results at the following link if you're interested.

http://www.focusrs.org/forum/16-foc...um/16-focus-rs-performance/57617-quick-look-when-turbo-upgrade-worth-doing.html

If a reliable 400+ whp is your goal at a minimum you're going to need to upgrade the turbo and add some kind of secondary fueling. I'm also of the opinion that you should also budget a bottom end rebuild as part of the process for safety.

 

Just consider 400whp a little out of reach for the stock turbo. 380whp is attainable with ethanol and the like, but 400whp is not realistically attainable while being reliable. You're looking at a turbo upgrade to reach this threshold.

 

So looks like the consensus is that yes you could probably squeeze out 400 but it would be pushing both the stock turbo and fuel system and likely some other stuff past the limits of reliability.

I will lower my simple upgrade path expectations accordingly

Thanks

 

You can easily make more than 400whp with additional fuel and octane, as an example the FullBlown additional injection kit and e85.

You won't safely make that power on pump gas.

 

If you have a secondary injection kit and a good Tuner you can lock in the torque at 400-420. I would never upgrade the turbo myself unless the short block was completely rebuilt. I think it would only give you more high end power and the torque would be harder to manage. I'm definitely waiting on Bludrgn to see how he likes his new turbo though!


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Okay so riddle me this. I've always wondered this. It seems the stock turbo makes an ass-clenching amount of torque when tuned/bolt-ons at low RPM. Its just the nature of the stock turbo and that characteristic is what's making people nervous about the integrity of the rods.

Would a bigger turbo, one that takes longer to spool and pushes the torque curve more to the right technically be safer? You'd still be making 400+ wheel torque, but it wouldn't come on until 4500-5000k rpm+ instead of super low RPM. That would ease the load on the rods a bit, no?

It's not the amount torque I'm super concerned with, it's how low in the RPM range the torque comes on with the stock turbo. Is it realistic to be more comfortable with 400+ wheel torque at a higher RPM range or is it wishful thinking?

 

Your line of thinking is correct. That is why @Fullblown was able to use all stock rods and pistons and put down over 500whp and 470wtq when they did big turbo testing last year. The curve was moved far enough right to be 'safe enough.' Keep in mind you will be shortening lifespans quite a bit at those power levels no matter what, so budgeting an engine build is smart in the RS's case.