A turbo engine is going to have significantly more oil passing back into the intake than an NA engine. I'm almost confused as to why catch cans aren't factor items. I'll be adding a mishimoto can the day I get it to attempt to squash the deposits

 

That is a very good question. If OCC's are so useful, work so well, and could be added by the manufacturer for about ten bucks; why aren't they OE?

 

my speed3 had pcv issues, and oil would collect in the inlet tube, but the valves looked brand new after 50k miles when I pulled the head.
is blowby on the EB engines that bad? do the heads on EB's run hot?
with all the oil my car consumed, I never saw it effect timing, knock or a reduction in power.
would rather not add a catch can, but if people know that EB performance is effected by misting I guess I better get on board.

 

I never pulled apart my Speed3 to look at the valves but after 150K it also used oil and also never seemed to lose power or mileage.

 

Yeah I guess if they were helpful ford would use them. Like burning a little mist of oil and water actually hurts anything

 

It's all about modifications I guess. The engineers most likely took any PCV return into account. But once you start to tune the car, the octane robbing affect of that little bit of mist is could mean a few HP when you're running on the knife edge of knock or timing.

 

You guys should search YouTube for "focus Carbon buildup" and check out the first two links. This isn't just minor buildup. This is serious, nasty sh1t! And it's not the power robbing effects of oil mist I'm really worried about.

not a fix all, but has anyone tried running methanol injection to help avoid pre det and to help keep stuff clean? I have a devils own system from a previous car that I was thinking of hooking up with a progressive controller.

 

You guys should search YouTube for "focus Carbon buildup" and check out the first two links. This isn't just minor buildup. This is serious, nasty sh1t! And it's not the power robbing effects of oil mist I'm really worried about.

 

Does a OCC (Oil Catch Can) prevent carbon build-up? If not, what is the solution/s ?

I understand this is a significant problem with the Golf-R and on the Golf-R it is extremely expensive to remove the carbon. What is the estimated carbon cleaning/removal process on the RS ?

YMMV,

MidCow3

 

Yes, I have heard meth/water injection helps wash off the oil deposits and prevents them from burning onto the valves. When does meth/water inject? Is it like NOS where it's only at WOT? If so, unless you're racing it won't be very effective just due to the infrequent use. I maybe go WOT 2-3 times a week for short bursts when passing another car. That's out of about 250 miles per week.

 

the progressive controller i have used has 2 programable limits tied to boost.
it will start spraying at a given level say 10 psi and spray full by the upper limit maybe 18psi
nozzles come in various sizes to determine volume

 

Couldn't agree more. My current fun car is a turbo S2000 and i beat the living snot out of it. I didnt spend more than the car is worth on aftermarket parts to just put around town. I did it to butt hurt V8s and shoot fire out the back! Lol.

 

Couldn't agree more. My current fun car is a turbo S2000 and i beat the living snot out of it. I didnt spend more than the car is worth in aftermarket parts to just put around town. I did it to butt hurt V8s and shoot fire out the back! Lol.

Lastdoughnut,

I also have a S2000 (not turbo, but still a blast) with Invidia Exhaust, Rick's Voodoo Shift Knob, K &N Air Filter and it is still a blast to drive around, especially between 5,000 and 8,000 RPM WOT.

YMMV,

MidCow3

 

Awesome MidCow3 ive had mine for 5 years. Just got turbo'd last year so its been interesting. But all my mods for it have to go on hold until the RS gets here as i dont wanna put myself in a bad financial situation with a new car payment coming lol. If you wanna know more about my s2k feel free to PM me and i can share more.

 

You could dump the pcv on the ground and still have valve carbon in an ecoboost. Guys on focusst.org have shown carbon with and without an occ. The soot from direct injection will stick to hot valves. Seafoam is not a viable method of cleaning deposits as ford has found this can cause turbo failure, and therefore head replacement is the prescribed fix. As far as i know this isnt a problem for the 2.0l . Quality fuel is a better long term solution than an occ in my opinion

 

Maybe you can explain, as I don't understand, how carbon still builds up on valves if a quality OCC is installed. The only thing going in should be air, period. I have seen some of the poor OCC designs and I can see how lots of oil vapor can still get to the intake. There is also a second stage OCC that you can get (Boomba and Damond to name a couple). Stage 1 hooks to the intake manifold/PCV valve hose connection. Stage 2 hooks into the valve cover PCV/above engine induction tube hose connection. (copied from Damond Motorsports) The key here may be to use both stages.

 

Exactly like you said, with a quality setup there should be just air going in. So many people think they can by the 15 dollar special and it's going to work wonders. Parts that really work cost real money. This is a very expensive hobby if it's done right

 

Midcow, we're talking the TOPS of the valves, on the intake side, not the combustion chamber side. You will always have some small layer of carbon inside the combustion chamber (piston crowns, valves, and head). But heat, pressure, and let'n 'er rip usually cleans that out pretty good. There's nothing short of chemical or mechanical cleaning that will remove it from the top of the valves. The best defense is prevention. And Ford DID try to do something, in the form of a baffle plate near the head, but it does a crappy job, especially under boost and even moreso with modified engines.

 

14RRST,

Okay. Thanks for the clear response.

YMMV,

MidCow3

 

Also, some spent mixture in the cylinder can get on the top of the valves when they first open just before intake air gets momentum into the cylinder. Maybe only under no boost conditions. But if the cylinder has more pressure than the intake for even a moment you will likely see some get on the top of the valve. Variable timing on the intake cam is likely one of the best ways to prevent that.

Some how in my mind twin scroll may help some since if there is open exhaust over lap between opening and closing of exhaust valves of cylinders ending and starting exhaust cycles. Thinking of high pressure of just starting exhausting staring to push exhaust of cylinder ending cycle back into cylinder some, or at least stopping the exhaust flow, before the exhaust valves close. But I'm sure the engineers at Ford know better than I do.

 

There does not appear to be much room for a catch can in here!

 

There does not appear to be much room for a catch can in here!

View attachment 2119

Looks just like the Focus bay.

 

That's because it IS a Focus, silly! There is not as much room near the passenger side firewall is what I meant.

 

True not as much as in the ST

 

Catch Cans....

Catch cans... Or Air Oil separators. This can be a touchy subject, I for one will be designing and producing an air oil seperator. I have a CAD file started but till the car is in my hands I will just have to wait. Will you be adding a catch can?

 

Of course. I think They should come standard on any forced induction production vehicle.

 

So if they should come standard, then why don't they? If they were absolutely needed don't you think Ford and other car vendors would have them as OEM equipment ?

YMMV,

MidCow3

 

Now that SCCA added an allowance for them (as long as PVC system remains fully operational) in Street class it is very likely that this will be the first, maybe only mod I put on mine for a while.

 

I will not be adding a snake oil catch can. my engine will gladly eat anything that passes the factory separator

 

I've never used one before, but I understand the concept. Could you elaborate on why you believe they are a waste of money?

 

Your better bet is an Aux fuel system if you are trying to prevent build up on the valves.

 

I'm restricted to allowed mods in my race class, Aux Fuel is not allowed.

 

I won't be, never have. Honestly if I keep the RS for a bit (over 3 years) it will have Meth, and who knows what else lol. The thing is Catch cans are not 100% effective, aux fuel really is. If you have a catch can you still want to think about aux fuel or atleast performing an induction service every 5-10K.

 

...or atleast performing an induction service every 5-10K.

What induction service have you heard that works and is safe, please?

Jim

 

I feel a bit out of touch with all of this. Can someone explain the details of an induction service? I'd prefer to keep my RS running at peak performance.

 

rather than ask me why I don't, let the ones that do use them show evidence that the rs needs more than the factory separator. its snake oil, guaranteed to make your car last 1million miles. yeah ecoboost engines can build up carbon. all direct injection motors due. they'll tell you I cuts down on valve carbon. but they don't have any lab tests to prove it. the only way to fix the root cause and need for a pcv system is to vent it thru a road tube that basically just dumps on the ground, but that's not legal or environmentally friendly. its an emission system to recycle nox vapors. trust ford, use the proper oil and relax. oh and if your car sits outside they can freeze, wanna know how far a dip stick can fly???

I could see the need for one maybe on a stroked engine that burns more oil than it does gas when running 35 psi. the need for one would be apparent in that case though.

 

oh and if your car sits outside they can freeze, wanna know how far a dip stick can fly???

Didn't think about that; good point! I'll probably continue to refrain from using one.

 

This is why a catch-can is beneficial.

Is Carbon Buildup a Problem With Direct-Injection Engines? » AutoGuide.com News

 

There are ways of dealing with freezing. Heated garage when cold out is simplest. Drain after running a while regularly so the frozen part does not block airflow. Or engineer a OCC that has a water coil on the can that you route engine coolant around. I know on my Honda they have a metal section on the PVC line that half is PVC the other half is just coolant to heat/cool that line, so in theory adding a coolant route coiled around OCC could regulate the temp in it too.