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Discussion Starter #1
Current owner of 2013 Focus ST3 and I have to say it's a great car but as a daily driver, the technology is severely lacking.
I also have a 2014 Grand Cherokee Limited and love the technology package it has.

Here is my wish list for the 2016 RS for technology, hopefully because it's a 'race car' technology won't be overlooked:

Heated seats
Ventilated seats
Backup camera
Dual power seats
NO CD PLAYER
Lane guidance / blind spot monitoring
Backup sensors
3-way sunroof
Blackberry SYNC
Remote start (doubtful)
Power liftgate (doubtful)
Auto-dimming mirror with homelink
Dimming driver-side mirror
Headlight washers
power adjustable pedals & steering wheel
Seat memory
link settings to key fob
power-folding mirrors
automatic braking / forward collision warning

Is that too much to ask? lol
 

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Current owner of 2013 Focus ST3 and I have to say it's a great car but as a daily driver, the technology is severely lacking.
I also have a 2014 Grand Cherokee Limited and love the technology package it has.

Here is my wish list for the 2016 RS for technology, hopefully because it's a 'race car' technology won't be overlooked:

Heated seats
Ventilated seats
Backup camera
Dual power seats
NO CD PLAYER
Lane guidance / blind spot monitoring
Backup sensors
3-way sunroof
Blackberry SYNC
Remote start (doubtful)
Power liftgate (doubtful)
Auto-dimming mirror with homelink
Dimming driver-side mirror
Headlight washers
power adjustable pedals & steering wheel
Seat memory
link settings to key fob
power-folding mirrors
automatic braking / forward collision warning

Is that too much to ask? lol

Your adding way too much weight. You're killing the Power to Weight Formula on the RS. Sounds like you want a performance luxury car instead, like a Cadillac CTS-V COUPE. ; )


My Wish List for a REAL RS, like the Porsche RS's:

- NO POWERED WINDOWS, LOCKS, nor SEATS. - Weight Savings, Besides, not everyone is too damn lazy to manually operate things by hand.
- No Sunroof - Weight Savings, as well as a Stiffer Structure for hard cornering.
- No Rear Seat Seats. - Weight Savings
- No Rear Roll Down Windows - Weight Savings
- Recaro All Leather/Leather Cloth/All Cloth Seats, again ALL Manual - Weight Savings
- Carbon Fiber Hood, Roof, and Rear Tailgate or Liftgate. If anything, go Aluminum. - Weight Savings
- At least a 16 gallon fuel tank. The Present North American 12 gallon fuel tank is too small. - A Penalty that Adds Weight
- ALL LED Lights, including Headlights. - No Penalty
- A much better, more professional looking, Dash Gage Package than what comes on the ST now. Perhaps installed on the Hood instead of the Dash, or better yet, a projected Display - No Penalty
- If possible, a Full Electronic Display showing the All Wheel Drive Powertrain, showing it actively engaging when driving, corning, etc. - A Penalty that adds to Cost.
- Brembo Brakes w/air ducted front brakes. All Carbon would be nice, but way too expensive right now, especially to ever replace. - Performance
- A fully covered Under Body, w/removable panels for service, for a better ground effect. - Performance
- A straight SS Cat Back Exhaust using Acoustical Noise Cancelling in place of Mufflers. - Performance
- A Breathable, non-restrictive, Catalytic Convertor. - Performance
- Engine Oil Cooler- Performance
- Tinted Windows, or better yet, Automatic UV sensing. - No Penalty
- OPTIONAL: Navigation/Stereo Entertainment System w/no CD. CD's are dead. - A Penalty that Adds Weight
- OPTIONAL: Deflated Spare, w/an Inflation Kit. - A Penalty that Adds Weight.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Your adding way too much weight. You're killing the Power to Weight Formula on the RS. Sounds like you want a performance luxury car instead, like a Cadillac CTS-V COUPE. ; )
haha, none of my options add weight that isnt already there in the ST.
From what I can tell so far, they are not removing weight from an RS, just adding power.

Your list is very unpractical for a sub-$50k car. Most may use this as a daily driver so the features need to be there.
I think if Ford leaves out the spare tire, that's as much weight reduction as you will see.
 

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haha, none of my options add weight that isnt already there in the ST.
From what I can tell so far, they are not removing weight from an RS, just adding power.

Your list is very unpractical for a sub-$50k car. Most may use this as a daily driver so the features need to be there.
I think if Ford leaves out the spare tire, that's as much weight reduction as you will see.
Ford has already released pretty much what their RS will be. It won't be what a true RS is, which is a stripped down car for weight savings, built for speed and handling.

A Bimmer (BMW) might be another option for what you are looking for. I use to own a 2008 135i, and boy was it fast, especially w/the Dinan Stage 2 software mods alone, which pushed it close to 400 HP, but boy was that thing loaded w/the most useless junk, pretty much everything that you are looking for, including electric seats, w/memory. For the time it took to adjust the seats, it would of been faster to manually adjust them. The memory never did work right on that thing either.

Manual Windows aren't impractical. Electrical Windows do add weight, because of the electric motors and such, add cost to the vehicle, and are expensive to repair once the warranty has expired, if you can even get the parts. Plus people can live w/o them. Every auto manufacturer has had issues w/them, which in the end, ends up costing customers BIG bucks to get repaired. This includes Luxury vehicles on down.

Just a few weeks ago, when having my ST serviced, they had a late model Ford Truck there, something like a 2011 model year, which needed to have one of it's electric windows motors replaced. They were already having problems getting the parts, from Ford themselves of all people, and were talking about going to a junkyard for the parts.

Removing weight adds performance because of the power to weight it adds. Adding options, or more of them, cuts into the performance, because it takes power to move more weight. If you take two RS's, one TOTALLY stripped vs. the one you want, the stripped one would beat it easily, because it is lighter.

Adding bells and whistles also adds Costs to the product, and guaranteed later costs for repairs, especially when it comes to electronics.

Almost everything that I want to remove, cuts BOTH Costs and Weight. Manual Windows, no Rear Roll Down Windows, no Sunroof, no Electric and Heated seats, no Spare or a Deflated Spare, no Rear Seat, and an optional Entertainment System.

Pretty much everything on your list adds to the Cost and Weight.

Instead of RS (Rally Sport), Ford should of called it something else, because real RS cars are designed to be lighter and thus faster.
 

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Ford has already released pretty much what their RS will be. It won't be what a true RS is, which is a stripped down car for weight savings, built for speed and handling.

A Bimmer (BMW) might be another option for what you are looking for. I use to own a 2008 135i, and boy was it fast, especially w/the Dinan Stage 2 software mods alone, which pushed it close to 400 HP, but boy was that thing loaded w/the most useless junk, pretty much everything that you are looking for, including electric seats, w/memory. For the time it took to adjust the seats, it would of been faster to manually adjust them. The memory never did work right on that thing either.

Manual Windows aren't impractical. Electrical Windows do add weight, because of the electric motors and such, add cost to the vehicle, and are expensive to repair once the warranty has expired, if you can even get the parts. Plus people can live w/o them. Every auto manufacturer has had issues w/them, which in the end, ends up costing customers BIG bucks to get repaired. This includes Luxury vehicles on down.

Just a few weeks ago, when having my ST serviced, they had a late model Ford Truck there, something like a 2011 model year, which needed to have one of it's electric windows motors replaced. They were already having problems getting the parts, from Ford themselves of all people, and were talking about going to a junkyard for the parts.

Removing weight adds performance because of the power to weight it adds. Adding options, or more of them, cuts into the performance, because it takes power to move more weight. If you take two RS's, one TOTALLY stripped vs. the one you want, the stripped one would beat it easily, because it is lighter.

Adding bells and whistles also adds Costs to the product, and guaranteed later costs for repairs, especially when it comes to electronics.

Almost everything that I want to remove, cuts BOTH Costs and Weight. Manual Windows, no Rear Roll Down Windows, no Sunroof, no Electric and Heated seats, no Spare or a Deflated Spare, no Rear Seat, and an optional Entertainment System.

Pretty much everything on your list adds to the Cost and Weight.

Instead of RS (Rally Sport), Ford should of called it something else, because real RS cars are designed to be lighter and thus faster.
Power windows are not as heavy as you think, if this was 10 years ago you would be correct, but many manufacturers have power windows that are lighter then manual. This is why you don't see Hypercars with manual windows anymore or vehicles like the Speciale or GT3 RS.

You are spot on about weight though, it is the one thing that effects every performance parameter. I will add to it though reducing unsprung or rotational mass has the effect of 10:1 over sprung weight, this is where you will get the most gains from dropping a few pounds, this is also why every one should strongly consider the Forged rims, not to mention the stiffness increase.
 

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Your adding way too much weight. You're killing the Power to Weight Formula on the RS. Sounds like you want a performance luxury car instead, like a Cadillac CTS-V COUPE. ; )


My Wish List for a REAL RS, like the Porsche RS's:
- NO POWERED WINDOWS, LOCKS, nor SEATS. - Weight Savings, Besides, not everyone is too damn lazy to manually operate things by hand.
- No Sunroof - Weight Savings, as well as a Stiffer Structure for hard cornering.
- No Rear Seat Seats. - Weight Savings
- No Rear Roll Down Windows - Weight Savings
- Recaro All Leather/Leather Cloth/All Cloth Seats, again ALL Manual - Weight Savings
- Carbon Fiber Hood, Roof, and Rear Tailgate or Liftgate. If anything, go Aluminum. - Weight Savings
- At least a 16 gallon fuel tank. The Present North American 12 gallon fuel tank is too small. - A Penalty that Adds Weight
- ALL LED Lights, including Headlights. - No Penalty
- A much better, more professional looking, Dash Gage Package than what comes on the ST now. Perhaps installed on the Hood instead of the Dash, or better yet, a projected Display - No Penalty
- If possible, a Full Electronic Display showing the All Wheel Drive Powertrain, showing it actively engaging when driving, corning, etc. - A Penalty that adds to Cost.
- Brembo Brakes w/air ducted front brakes. All Carbon would be nice, but way too expensive right now, especially to ever replace. - Performance
- A fully covered Under Body, w/removable panels for service, for a better ground effect. - Performance
- A straight SS Cat Back Exhaust using Acoustical Noise Cancelling in place of Mufflers. - Performance
- A Breathable, non-restrictive, Catalytic Convertor. - Performance
- Engine Oil Cooler- Performance
- Tinted Windows, or better yet, Automatic UV sensing. - No Penalty
- OPTIONAL: Navigation/Stereo Entertainment System w/no CD. CD's are dead. - A Penalty that Adds Weight
- OPTIONAL: Deflated Spare, w/an Inflation Kit. - A Penalty that Adds Weight.
So the Nitrous Blue is out for you :rolleyes:
 

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Power windows are not as heavy as you think, if this was 10 years ago you would be correct, but many manufacturers have power windows that are lighter then manual. This is why you don't see Hypercars with manual windows anymore or vehicles like the Speciale or GT3 RS.

You are spot on about weight though, it is the one thing that effects every performance parameter. I will add to it though reducing unsprung or rotational mass has the effect of 10:1 over sprung weight, this is where you will get the most gains from dropping a few pounds, this is also why every one should strongly consider the Forged rims, not to mention the stiffness increase.
One of the Stiffness increases is getting a vehicle w/o a sunroof, and the same w/not getting a convertible as well.

They still do have an issue w/failing too, when it comes to power windows, whether it's the motor, or the linkage.

BMW's have had a notorious problem w/them over the years, especially w/their E46 series of cars.

Jeep (Chrysler) too, w/there 2002–2007 Liberty models.

They use to be a luxury item, which is fine there, where now you can't hardly find any vehicle w/o them anymore, including Jeep Wranglers and trucks.

Then as I pointed out earlier w/that Ford truck, there's a problem getting the parts later, from Ford in that case, which bothers me too.

I just never understood what is so hard about rolling down and up your windows by hand.

Then w/a performance car, to see all the features of a luxury car in them. I can see an entertainment system, and perhaps even A/C, definitely a good comfortable seat, but what else do people REALLY need in such a class of vehicle? When it comes to the Recaro Seats, some like them, while others don't, when it comes to comfort. In my ST, I have the Leather/Cloth combo, which seem OK for me. I've driven hundreds of miles on trips sitting in mine, and not having any issues w/them, other than having to remove my wallet in my pocket perhaps.

I don't know how many people remember. or have ever seen, a 1968 Road Runner. They were a totally stripped muscle car, and came w/bench seats, no radio, no electric windows, and no A/C, except as options. They were also cheap to buy as well too. Of course they were a total rust bucket, so finding one in the salt belt now-a-days may not even happen. :D
 

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One of the Stiffness increases is getting a vehicle w/o a sunroof, and the same w/not getting a convertible as well.

They still do have an issue w/failing too, when it comes to power windows, whether it's the motor, or the linkage.

BMW's have had a notorious problem w/them over the years, especially w/their E46 series of cars.

Jeep (Chrysler) too, w/there 2002–2007 Liberty models.

They use to be a luxury item, which is fine there, where now you can't hardly find any vehicle w/o them anymore, including Jeep Wranglers and trucks.

Then as I pointed out earlier w/that Ford truck, there's a problem getting the parts later, from Ford in that case, which bothers me too.

I just never understood what is so hard about rolling down and up your windows by hand.

Then w/a performance car, to see all the features of a luxury car in them. I can see an entertainment system, and perhaps even A/C, definitely a good comfortable seat, but what else do people REALLY need in such a class of vehicle? When it comes to the Recaro Seats, some like them, while others don't, when it comes to comfort. In my ST, I have the Leather/Cloth combo, which seem OK for me. I've driven hundreds of miles on trips sitting in mine, and not having any issues w/them, other than having to remove my wallet in my pocket perhaps.

I don't know how many people remember. or have ever seen, a 1968 Road Runner. They were a totally stripped muscle car, and came w/bench seats, no radio, no electric windows, and no A/C, except as options. They were also cheap to buy as well too. Of course they were a total rust bucket, so finding one in the salt belt now-a-days may not even happen. :D
Everything has issues, I am a service manager at a dealer, if it can break it will.

I don't think there is a problem with rolling down windows by hand accept for when it is not your window.

I'm totally for a stripped out vehicle, I would DD an Ariel Atom if weather permitted, but many people won't, and the point of a hot hatch is to be a perfect DD having all the bells and whistles but being very capable on the track.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So what can we ACTUALLY expect from the RS?
Will it be similar to the ST with 3 trim levels or will RS become a single trim level in the Focus line?

Being that it is a new 2016 vehicle with somewhat normal production numbers, I can garuntee the 'weight reduction' options will not be added.

Some others may agree with me, and others will not, and that is fine, but I will want the 2016 RS for a faster, AWD, newer version of my current ST.
 

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Remember the SRT-4 (Neon Chassis), it had power front windows and manual rear. I want the power windows, not that I need it but I like to keep my left and right windows even, not sure I could reach the right door in the FoRS and crack the window easily, I know I can in my old Civic (if using the OEM seat belt and not the harness).
 

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So what can we ACTUALLY expect from the RS?
Will it be similar to the ST with 3 trim levels or will RS become a single trim level in the Focus line?

Being that it is a new 2016 vehicle with somewhat normal production numbers, I can garuntee the 'weight reduction' options will not be added.

Some others may agree with me, and others will not, and that is fine, but I will want the 2016 RS for a faster, AWD, newer version of my current ST.
In fact they are adding stuff, but you're right, though it would be nice to be able to order one fairly stripped.

I know w/Porsche's RS's in the past, they charged more for them, for what is essentially, a stripped car. Of course they generally come w/more HP, and better suspension packages, but other than that, are stripped for what an RS is, Rally Sport.

I'm definitely looking at the RS to replace my ST myself. I like the AWD, and the more HP. I would imagine too, because of the AWD, it may be closer to a 50/50 weight distribution too. I'll most likely wait till late 2016 or early 2017, so that any issues that may crop up, get fixed. It happened w/the ST, and so one can't expect anything different w/the RS, especially w/their new AWD system.

Does anyone know if the engine will be inline, or transverse like it is now in the ST? I would think w/the AWD, it would have to be inline, but then again, Audi has an AWD w/a transverse engine, in their TT model.

I just hope the RS comes w/a bigger fuel tank. That's the only thing that I do not like w/my ST.
 

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Everything has issues, I am a service manager at a dealer, if it can break it will.

I don't think there is a problem with rolling down windows by hand accept for when it is not your window.

I'm totally for a stripped out vehicle, I would DD an Ariel Atom if weather permitted, but many people won't, and the point of a hot hatch is to be a perfect DD having all the bells and whistles but being very capable on the track.
Electronics especially. When they go, they go, w/no warnings. Then the issue too being replacing parts, not so much under warranty, but after. As I pointed out before w/that Ford truck, the dealer was already having problems finding a replacement part from Ford themselves, for a four year old vehicle. There use to be a requirement of having a ten year supply of parts, but I guess that's not being followed anymore.

The more parts that can be shared between vehicle models, the better, because the supply will be better, and their cost should be cheaper.

Just image getting ANYTHING for a Ford GT, due to their limited run? Of course if you can afford a Ford GT, then you can either afford the parts, and/or have them custom made.
 

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I'd prefer my RS with no driver's comforts, please. If it doesn't make the car accelerate faster or handle better then Ford can keep it. Ford can keep their warranty while their at it too, because it'll surely be voided anyways.
 

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Does anyone know if the engine will be inline, or transverse like it is now in the ST? I would think w/the AWD, it would have to be inline, but then again, Audi has an AWD w/a transverse engine, in their TT model.
I'd imagine its setup just like the Escape. From what I think I know, the Escape, which also has AWD, is built on the same platform as the focus so I'm guessing its transverse.
 
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