Ford Focus RS Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Afternoon All,

I own a USDM '17 FoRS RS2 package car that has presented an issue that has consumed quite a bit of my time.
Car has roughly 16k~ miles on it - problem has been present since 1,700 miles or so.

I've had this car in to a few local dealers a total of 9 times and a grand total of 97 days attempting to correct/alleviate this issue. I've had Ford Customer Care involved, escalated to a regional manager.

I've been told i'm crazy. I've been told that they can't reproduce the problem. I've been told that I drive the car in a manner inconsistent with the original intention of the vehicle. I've also been told they have no idea what is happening or how to fix it.

In 97 days, the dealers have managed to replace the primary fuel pump in the fuel tank, and a set of spark plugs, in an attempt to correct this issue.

It has an odd misfire upon acceleration - heavy or light acceleration, once the vehicle is fully warmed up (Oil temperature 190-210*F) that is HEAVILY exaggerated on left turns. I've monitored PIDs and datalogged this phenomenon to the best of my abilities. From what I can tell, the PCM begins to detect spark knock, and retards timing during these events. Fuel pressure doesn't appear to drop in any observable amount. Plugs are clean and gapped correctly. It doesn't record/log any misfires during these events. AFR seems to be in line in the vehicle. It is 100% STOCK - down to the transport steering wheel cover. I have a glovebox full of 93 octane receipts for the vehicle and doubt it is a fuel quality concern over so many miles of driving. Intercooling boots, piping, clamps and airbox tract all in clean and good order.

Any ideas? I'm at the end of the rope here. Head gasket was replaced before I purchased the car. (bought it new). I've continuously returned to the idea of a fuel delivery concern with this problem, especially considering the left hand turn misfires. It makes it absolutely unpredictable to drive once it gets warmed up. Before it warms it though, I believe the car is performing the way it was meant to perform. I've dynoed the car on an AWD dyno and made 249/301.

Also, if one of y'all has any contact info for the galaxy brains in the Rhineland that designed this car, please let me know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
So what you're saying is your car is unsuitable to compete in NASCAR.

In all seriousness, this does sound weird. When you say left turns, do you mean very aggressive turns or even gentle turns? You might want to keep track of the relationship between this issue and the lateral acceleration when you're turning as well as the duration of the turns. If the severity is associated with a certain turning direction it may indeed be a fuel feeding issue. However I'm not quite familiar with the internals, hopefully someone more qualified could figure out what might be going on here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
So what you're saying is your car is unsuitable to compete in NASCAR.

In all seriousness, this does sound weird. When you say left turns, do you mean very aggressive turns or even gentle turns? You might want to keep track of the relationship between this issue and the lateral acceleration when you're turning as well as the duration of the turns. If the severity is associated with a certain turning direction it may indeed be a fuel feeding issue. However I'm not quite familiar with the internals, hopefully someone more qualified could figure out what might be going on here.
Already have. Doesnt matter if im braking into the turn, accelerating through it, coasting, in or out of gear either. Doesnt matter if it is a hard turn or not - wide and sweeping or tight and aggressive turns all can cause the problem.

To be clear - it can have the same problem on the freeway going straight during acceleration as well. Only prerequisite is the car has to be warm. The problem is also more exaggerated as the tank empties.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,923 Posts
Afternoon All,

I own a USDM '17 FoRS RS2 package car that has presented an issue that has consumed quite a bit of my time.
Car has roughly 16k~ miles on it - problem has been present since 1,700 miles or so.

I've had this car in to a few local dealers a total of 9 times and a grand total of 97 days attempting to correct/alleviate this issue. I've had Ford Customer Care involved, escalated to a regional manager.

I've been told i'm crazy. I've been told that they can't reproduce the problem. I've been told that I drive the car in a manner inconsistent with the original intention of the vehicle. I've also been told they have no idea what is happening or how to fix it.

In 97 days, the dealers have managed to replace the primary fuel pump in the fuel tank, and a set of spark plugs, in an attempt to correct this issue.

It has an odd misfire upon acceleration - heavy or light acceleration, once the vehicle is fully warmed up (Oil temperature 190-210*F) that is HEAVILY exaggerated on left turns. I've monitored PIDs and datalogged this phenomenon to the best of my abilities. From what I can tell, the PCM begins to detect spark knock, and retards timing during these events. Fuel pressure doesn't appear to drop in any observable amount. Plugs are clean and gapped correctly. It doesn't record/log any misfires during these events. AFR seems to be in line in the vehicle. It is 100% STOCK - down to the transport steering wheel cover. I have a glovebox full of 93 octane receipts for the vehicle and doubt it is a fuel quality concern over so many miles of driving. Intercooling boots, piping, clamps and airbox tract all in clean and good order.

Any ideas? I'm at the end of the rope here. Head gasket was replaced before I purchased the car. (bought it new). I've continuously returned to the idea of a fuel delivery concern with this problem, especially considering the left hand turn misfires. It makes it absolutely unpredictable to drive once it gets warmed up. Before it warms it though, I believe the car is performing the way it was meant to perform. I've dynoed the car on an AWD dyno and made 249/301.

Also, if one of y'all has any contact info for the galaxy brains in the Rhineland that designed this car, please let me know.
Well I assume the PCM detects knock because it goes lean when the event occurs so it sounds like fuel delivery. Quite a few people here have had the lift pump in the tank replaced for this exact issue so maybe you got a faulty replacement unit. Did the car do this before the HG replacement? quite a few people have had the injectors damaged during the HG job which have led to running issues. Does the fuel level have any influence?
Its not a traction control issue is it? its definitely a misfire?
Maybe you could buy a single coilover and swap it out one at a time and see if you have a faulty unit. They can cause problems when hot and be ok when cold.
Ciao
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Well I assume the PCM detects knock because it goes lean when the event occurs so it sounds like fuel delivery. Quite a few people here have had the lift pump in the tank replaced for this exact issue so maybe you got a faulty replacement unit. Did the car do this before the HG replacement? quite a few people have had the injectors damaged during the HG job which have led to running issues. Does the fuel level have any influence?
Its not a traction control issue is it? its definitely a misfire?
Maybe you could buy a single coilover and swap it out one at a time and see if you have a faulty unit. They can cause problems when hot and be ok when cold.
Ciao
The knock because lean theory is largely what ive been entertaining.
HG was replaced before i bought it. (New).
Less fuel exaggerates the problem.
The problem is NOT dependent on any one cylinder. CCT indicates the knock (or timing pull consequently) is entirely random. Doubtful ALL the coils have an issue when turning left. Same reasoning applies to the injectors.
T/C off yields same results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,923 Posts
The knock because lean theory is largely what ive been entertaining.
HG was replaced before i bought it. (New).
Less fuel exaggerates the problem.
The problem is NOT dependent on any one cylinder. CCT indicates the knock (or timing pull consequently) is entirely random. Doubtful ALL the coils have an issue when turning left. Same reasoning applies to the injectors.
T/C off yields same results.
I'm thinking the lift pump in the tank or the filter. I know its been replaced but I've replaced a lot of stuff over the years on aircraft and bikes and cars as well that's been "U/S ex stores"
The low fuel exacerbation of the issue together with the cornering is classic of the symptoms. I'd be replacing the pump unit again and also checking the line from the tank to the HP fuel pump.
I think someone had to replace lines to fix a similar issue.

Ciao
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Afternoon All,

I own a USDM '17 FoRS RS2 package car that has presented an issue that has consumed quite a bit of my time.
Car has roughly 16k~ miles on it - problem has been present since 1,700 miles or so.

I've had this car in to a few local dealers a total of 9 times and a grand total of 97 days attempting to correct/alleviate this issue. I've had Ford Customer Care involved, escalated to a regional manager.

I've been told i'm crazy. I've been told that they can't reproduce the problem. I've been told that I drive the car in a manner inconsistent with the original intention of the vehicle. I've also been told they have no idea what is happening or how to fix it.

In 97 days, the dealers have managed to replace the primary fuel pump in the fuel tank, and a set of spark plugs, in an attempt to correct this issue.

It has an odd misfire upon acceleration - heavy or light acceleration, once the vehicle is fully warmed up (Oil temperature 190-210*F) that is HEAVILY exaggerated on left turns. I've monitored PIDs and datalogged this phenomenon to the best of my abilities. From what I can tell, the PCM begins to detect spark knock, and retards timing during these events. Fuel pressure doesn't appear to drop in any observable amount. Plugs are clean and gapped correctly. It doesn't record/log any misfires during these events. AFR seems to be in line in the vehicle. It is 100% STOCK - down to the transport steering wheel cover. I have a glovebox full of 93 octane receipts for the vehicle and doubt it is a fuel quality concern over so many miles of driving. Intercooling boots, piping, clamps and airbox tract all in clean and good order.

Any ideas? I'm at the end of the rope here. Head gasket was replaced before I purchased the car. (bought it new). I've continuously returned to the idea of a fuel delivery concern with this problem, especially considering the left hand turn misfires. It makes it absolutely unpredictable to drive once it gets warmed up. Before it warms it though, I believe the car is performing the way it was meant to perform. I've dynoed the car on an AWD dyno and made 249/301.

Also, if one of y'all has any contact info for the galaxy brains in the Rhineland that designed this car, please let me know.
Have you checked your grounds? Check the one right next to the battery first, mine was painted over and making crap contact, scrapped off the paint and added some silicon grease to prevent corrosion. Fixing this helped reduce low throttle misfires as well as the wot ones for me while turning...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
All signs point to the fuel delivery as Phil and Silver wings mentioned. If it happens under acceleration, turns and is worse when there is less fuel something is has to be wrong with the pickup in the tank. A theory as to why it only happens when warm is that the engine runs much richer as it is getting up to operating temperature, so if the ECU requests x amount of fuel it is really getting less but the won’t sputter as it is still enough fuel to run.

Maybe go and see if they will let you take one of the techs for a ride as you know how to exactly replicate it. If they can’t figure it out and refuse to do anything further then go and get the in tank pump looked at by someone who knows what they are doing or replace it yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I'm thinking the lift pump in the tank or the filter. I know its been replaced but I've replaced a lot of stuff over the years on aircraft and bikes and cars as well that's been "U/S ex stores"
The low fuel exacerbation of the issue together with the cornering is classic of the symptoms. I'd be replacing the pump unit again and also checking the line from the tank to the HP fuel pump.
I think someone had to replace lines to fix a similar issue.

Ciao
Doubtful its lines but at this point its up to the dealer.

Have you checked your grounds? Check the one right next to the battery first, mine was painted over and making crap contact, scrapped off the paint and added some silicon grease to prevent corrosion. Fixing this helped reduce low throttle misfires as well as the wot ones for me while turning...
I'm not touching the car as they will use it as a reason to deny any part of this car.

All signs point to the fuel delivery as Phil and Silver wings mentioned. If it happens under acceleration, turns and is worse when there is less fuel something is has to be wrong with the pickup in the tank. A theory as to why it only happens when warm is that the engine runs much richer as it is getting up to operating temperature, so if the ECU requests x amount of fuel it is really getting less but the won’t sputter as it is still enough fuel to run.

Maybe go and see if they will let you take one of the techs for a ride as you know how to exactly replicate it. If they can’t figure it out and refuse to do anything further then go and get the in tank pump looked at by someone who knows what they are doing or replace it yourself.
I've been on numerous test drives with technicians, foremans, and service managers in the vehicle to show them how to replicate the issue - none of them seem to understand the car has to be warm to get it to act up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
298 Posts
Doubtful its lines but at this point its up to the dealer.



I'm not touching the car as they will use it as a reason to deny any part of this car.



I've been on numerous test drives with technicians, foremans, and service managers in the vehicle to show them how to replicate the issue - none of them seem to understand the car has to be warm to get it to act up.
Then why aren't you showing them this problem while its warm lol??? Maybe it's your foot just slipping off the throttle??? I know this chicken leg girl that had that problem...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
This is probably not related but the left turn thing has me thinking about a problem I get with my car sometimes that I need to get checked out. Sometimes when I cold start my car the A/C has issues running consistently, it will blow air in spurts and at low pressure. It takes a bit, but the A/C eventually starts working as normal. When I have this A/C issue and I turn, it will blow air normal until I'm done with the turn and then blow in spurts again.

Could your issue be a faulty sensor issue? Replacing the HPFR sensor seems to help people that get hesitation/surging/dipping idle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Then why aren't you showing them this problem while its warm lol??? Maybe it's your foot just slipping off the throttle??? I know this chicken leg girl that had that problem...
.. I have shown the issue while warm? How else would I reproduce it?

This is probably not related but the left turn thing has me thinking about a problem I get with my car sometimes that I need to get checked out. Sometimes when I cold start my car the A/C has issues running consistently, it will blow air in spurts and at low pressure. It takes a bit, but the A/C eventually starts working as normal. When I have this A/C issue and I turn, it will blow air normal until I'm done with the turn and then blow in spurts again.

Could your issue be a faulty sensor issue? Replacing the HPFR sensor seems to help people that get hesitation/surging/dipping idle.
Possible but again, the PIDs show the ECU detecting knock. And there are TWO separate knock sensors both reading fairly comparable signals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I’d be curious about the position of the throttle body valve when you’re observing this. This car has so many “nannies” that restrict the torque output. My tuner had a hell of a time getting around all of them when I had my car dyno tuned last month. He mentioned the throttle body would only be about 30% opened even when his right foot was asking for WOT. Before this, the car felt sluggish and there was a lapse between pushing the gas and getting the shove of acceleration. That’s not an issue anymore. That’s the difference between mechanical differentials and electronically controlled ones. It’s pretty common to see timing corrections on a single cylinder at the beginning of a pull and without WMI. I was told it’s corrections across multiple cylinders at the same time that I need to watch out for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Sounds like your dealing with a questionable dealer or tech. Take it in, let them punt it then request a flight recorder be installed. At that point when you have ur car and it flips you can capture it & they can review it and get it nailed down. Ofcourse the flight recorder is only as good as the tech.installing it So find a better dealer. 😁 my 2 cents.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Afternoon All,

I own a USDM '17 FoRS RS2 package car that has presented an issue that has consumed quite a bit of my time.
Car has roughly 16k~ miles on it - problem has been present since 1,700 miles or so.

I've had this car in to a few local dealers a total of 9 times and a grand total of 97 days attempting to correct/alleviate this issue. I've had Ford Customer Care involved, escalated to a regional manager.

I've been told i'm crazy. I've been told that they can't reproduce the problem. I've been told that I drive the car in a manner inconsistent with the original intention of the vehicle. I've also been told they have no idea what is happening or how to fix it.

In 97 days, the dealers have managed to replace the primary fuel pump in the fuel tank, and a set of spark plugs, in an attempt to correct this issue.

It has an odd misfire upon acceleration - heavy or light acceleration, once the vehicle is fully warmed up (Oil temperature 190-210*F) that is HEAVILY exaggerated on left turns. I've monitored PIDs and datalogged this phenomenon to the best of my abilities. From what I can tell, the PCM begins to detect spark knock, and retards timing during these events. Fuel pressure doesn't appear to drop in any observable amount. Plugs are clean and gapped correctly. It doesn't record/log any misfires during these events. AFR seems to be in line in the vehicle. It is 100% STOCK - down to the transport steering wheel cover. I have a glovebox full of 93 octane receipts for the vehicle and doubt it is a fuel quality concern over so many miles of driving. Intercooling boots, piping, clamps and airbox tract all in clean and good order.

Any ideas? I'm at the end of the rope here. Head gasket was replaced before I purchased the car. (bought it new). I've continuously returned to the idea of a fuel delivery concern with this problem, especially considering the left hand turn misfires. It makes it absolutely unpredictable to drive once it gets warmed up. Before it warms it though, I believe the car is performing the way it was meant to perform. I've dynoed the car on an AWD dyno and made 249/301.

Also, if one of y'all has any contact info for the galaxy brains in the Rhineland that designed this car, please let me know.
Here is a thought, it might be the electrical cutoff for the fuel pump for when the car is tipped over in the event of an accident. It could be getting triggered during the hard left turns. theoretically it should be either on or off but...... I had a problem with the one in a 2003 Focus SVT.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top