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2017 Focus RS - Nitrous Blue
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm sorry to make yet another post about mod list but I've been lurking on the forums for a bit since I bought my 17 about 6 months ago and relatively few are with water meth in mind. A close friend of mine who is a much more experienced builder swears up and down by water meth and I gotta say I'm convinced. A bit of background, I bought the car with 72k miles in Maryland. My father was a mechanic and MD has a pretty strict rust inspection so after looking over the car and talking to my aforementioned friend (who actually works for Opus) I decided to buy it. I just couldn't say no after that test drive. To put in bluntly, I'm head over heels for the car and have been itching since day 1 to do some of my own modifications to it. This is my daily and the first car I've ever had in my name.

After a small incident with a deer I cracked my radiator and needed a new bumper; the Mountune rad was basically a no brainer and I happened to catch a sale so I said screw it and ordered the FMIC as well. My original plan was to slowly buy all of the components for the B7 kit and tune it once I was done, after that I'd buy a water meth kit somewhere down the line and retune it. After some more digging around I've realized this plan isn't the brightest. Aside from the filter an intake doesn't really do much and neither do hot/cold pipes. Additionally it doesn't make much sense to pay Mountune for a tune and then pay for another tune with water meth (which I don't think they do), especially when water meth kits are one of the cheaper components I've mentioned. I think I'm still going to buy an intake, as that CF Cobb intake just looks too good but I might hold off on hot/cold pipes for a while.

This brings me to my other line of questions. How much can I realistically make before I risk blowing up my engine? 100mph pulls are pretty hard to do where I live and I mostly just give it the beans a couple times during my drive somewhere (can't be flooring that **** with these gas prices). I want to track it but there aren't any close to me and they're pretty expensive so MAYBE 1-3 times a year. So basically, my engine wouldn't get treated too harshly. That being said am I even going to reach danger zones with bolt ons and meth? I don't particularly want to get into fuel upgrades and I really don't have interest in doing a turbo swap atm. The B7 kit claimed about 380whp and 425wtq iirc, my buddy talked to a couple Ford master techs and they said that should be fine as long as I don't beat the hell out of the engine and that torque is really going to be the limiting factor. I'm unsure how much meth is going to boost those numbers but I've been told it's not really about gain so much as leveling out and extending my peak power. I've also seen some talk about tuning more for HP than TQ but given our engine I'm not convinced you can swing them too much either way.

So has anyone here done FBO + meth? Have you had any problems with your engine? Can I even fully utilize these upgrades without fuel upgrades? Should I look into reinforcing my cylinder wall? I plan on talking to both Randy and Adam as I've seen these are the main two trusted by everyone on here but I'm unsure if they even mess with meth kits. Also a RMM and Recirc valve are definitely still on the to buy list if that wasn't clear. Is there anything I'm missing?

Side note: After that deer incident I've also been looking into lightbars. Currently looking at either a 20in curved double row lightbar from Black Oak or the 30in. I posted on the lightbar mega thread but I've not gotten any responses so if anyone also happens to know anything about these it'd be much appreciated! My main concerns are if the 30in would fit "flush" in the front bumper and how much they'd realistically block airflow from the big mouth inlet if I ever decide to pick one up.
 

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If you replaced the intercooler, you might as well replace the rest of the intake piping. The OE cold-side pipe has a nasty restrictor in it too. I can't speak about WMI though.

I believe the consensus is that <420whp is generally safe, and <400whp should be totally safe. I've usually run an e40 tune that's 415whp, and sometimes an e30 tune that's 403whp. Once you find a tuner, you should talk to them about this though.
 

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Ok well your plan sounds great. But the intercooler is also worthless once you do meth. It will never lower temps more than the meth.
I would also suggest spending a bit more and buying the alky controls kit and run straight meth.
That’s the kit I did with no other mods.
I was able to max out stock turbo at 389awhp not fwd. that was my favorite setup and by far the best bang for buck setup you can get.
 

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If you replaced the intercooler, you might as well replace the rest of the intake piping. The OE cold-side pipe has a nasty restrictor in it too. I can't speak about WMI though.

I believe the consensus is that <420whp is generally safe, and <400whp should be totally safe. I've usually run an e40 tune that's 415whp, and sometimes an e30 tune that's 403whp. Once you find a tuner, you should talk to them about this though.
Don’t take this the wrong way but that pipe has no restrictions. I’m over 520awhp and not run into a issue with them.
OP keep in mind hp numbers will bedifferent depending on the dyno and if done in fwd or awd.
 

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Well, this conversation is topical for me, and since there's a few folks in here with experience with meth / water-meth... I just recently placed an order for the aquamist kit, but am still waiting for it to arrive. My plan is to run water-meth, but I'm wondering what folks came up with for their reservoir. Obvious is just using/tapping into the winshield washer reservoir, but I'd love to have some additional capacity. I also do not want to mount the reservoir in the hatch. I remember reading a thread either on here or the ST forum a few years ago where somebody was looking into mounting a secondary reservoir behind the bumper and tying it in to the windshield reservoir, but they never followed up, and I can't find the thread anymore. Sounded like a slick solution if possible, but it would be nice to know if anybody came up with a cool solution, and especially if they have a recommendation of a tank that will work for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If you replaced the intercooler, you might as well replace the rest of the intake piping. The OE cold-side pipe has a nasty restrictor in it too. I can't speak about WMI though.

I believe the consensus is that <420whp is generally safe, and <400whp should be totally safe. I've usually run an e40 tune that's 415whp, and sometimes an e30 tune that's 403whp. Once you find a tuner, you should talk to them about this though.
What about torque though? If Mountune is to be believed and you pump it up to around 400-420whp then you're likely around 450-470wtq and that is what's truly going to be the problem. Can anyone speak to tuning for more HP instead of TQ?
 

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My (limited) understanding is that the tune demands a specific torque and the ecu adjusts boost and other things to achieve that. Torque is supposed to be the more concerning factor... for breaking things. My e40 tune dyno'd at 423ft-lbs. And as Snox said, dyno's do differ... but I think Dyno Dynamics are supposed to be around the middle. I am planning on getting a run on a Dynojet soon... mostly because their winpep software is awesome for comparing dynos, and you can do much more with the dyno outputs.

The next time I get my tune updated, I was going to have them cap my torque at 415.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
My (limited) understanding is that the tune demands a specific torque and the ecu adjusts boost and other things to achieve that. Torque is supposed to be the more concerning factor... for breaking things. My e40 tune dyno'd at 423ft-lbs. And as Snox said, dyno's do differ... but I think Dyno Dynamics are supposed to be around the middle. I am planning on getting a run on a Dynojet soon... mostly because their winpep software is awesome for comparing dynos, and you can do much more with the dyno outputs.

The next time I get my tune updated, I was going to have them cap my torque at 415.
Hmm. Having already purchased a FMIC there may not be much point in doing water meth for my car. It seems I will probably already be pushing the limits just with a tune and FMIC + full pipe upgrades. As much as I like the idea unless I send my block off for a CSS or buy a new forged block I would be limiting what it's capable of anyway. I'm unsure how much the "flattening" of the power band will be worth the money spent on WMI. I'll have to talk to some tuners but unless my light driving will be fine for 450wtq or I can somehow keep 420wtq and use WMI to push to 400whp (instead of 380) it will mostly be just an extra expense.
 

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WMI does have other benefits, like helping to clean the valves. It also depends on how much power you can get from just gas. 380 sounds a little high, even for 93 octane. I could be wrong... I only have crappy 91 oct here.
 

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Hmm. Having already purchased a FMIC there may not be much point in doing water meth for my car. It seems I will probably already be pushing the limits just with a tune and FMIC + full pipe upgrades. As much as I like the idea unless I send my block off for a CSS or buy a new forged block I would be limiting what it's capable of anyway. I'm unsure how much the "flattening" of the power band will be worth the money spent on WMI. I'll have to talk to some tuners but unless my light driving will be fine for 450wtq or I can somehow keep 420wtq and use WMI to push to 400whp (instead of 380) it will mostly be just an extra expense.
No in fact you will gain a ton. No intercooler Will ever come close to meth. First your ait Will never be as cold as meth. Two you add a ton of octane with water meth zero octane with intercooler.
Your first idea was the best idea.
First I can tell you without meth or full e85 you will cap around 360-365whp on the dyno I’ve been on. With meth you will get to 389whp.
Second don’t worry so much about the extra power the stock turbo can’t make enough power to do much damage unless you are using launch control a ton like I was. Then I needed a clutch. But keep in mind this was a prepped track and I was running back to back a lot before the clutch started to slip.
Plus I’m not nice to my car ever average mpg in mine is 6. It’s a fun car for me so when it come out it gets beat on. You will be ok.
 

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2nd asking for pictures. I was originally planning on some kind of trunk mounted tank but was dreading it. How far are you getting off of the 1 gallon? Tank for tank?

Who is your tuner btw?
I don’t think I have any pictures right now. I’m not able to take any for a bit. I’d have to try and figure out a good way to show it also. My car looks 100 percent stock. My injectors are hidden under the intake runners so everything appears stock. Hence why I used washer tank.
The meth setup on my rs last a decent amount of time maybe one gallon per tank but I’m spray a heavy nozzle and early. I have the same setup on my truck and it sprays only when I hit higher boost wot and it last long enough for my work trips which are usually 30 hours of driving with just enough playing g in between.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
WMI does have other benefits, like helping to clean the valves. It also depends on how much power you can get from just gas. 380 sounds a little high, even for 93 octane. I could be wrong... I only have crappy 91 oct here.
Yeah I was recalling numbers wrong. Mountune is reporting 350whp and 442wtq on their B7 kit which is a "stage 2". Their numbers seem inflated however as comparing COBB, Tune+, and Tunewerks numbers, they all read about 400wtq on comparable tunes. Tunewerks is a bit iffy though as they don't report what supporting mods if any were used to achieve those numbers. If that's a straight tune then Tunewerks would likely be reporting similar numbers to Mountune with a stage 2 kit. Mountune also starts with way higher stock numbers like 335/365 at the wheels which is just not possible. If 400wtq is to be believed with no WMI than it is probably safe to do WMI and actually make use of the extra power.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
No in fact you will gain a ton. No intercooler Will ever come close to meth. First your ait Will never be as cold as meth. Two you add a ton of octane with water meth zero octane with intercooler.
Your first idea was the best idea.
First I can tell you without meth or full e85 you will cap around 360-365whp on the dyno I’ve been on. With meth you will get to 389whp.
Second don’t worry so much about the extra power the stock turbo can’t make enough power to do much damage unless you are using launch control a ton like I was. Then I needed a clutch. But keep in mind this was a prepped track and I was running back to back a lot before the clutch started to slip.
Plus I’m not nice to my car ever average mpg in mine is 6. It’s a fun car for me so when it come out it gets beat on. You will be ok.
I understand an FMIC will never compete with WMI in terms of AIT and octane boost. My primary concern was being unable to use the extra power from already being on the limit without WMI. I'm coming around to the idea that might not be the case though. Also correct me if I'm wrong but afaik you should never be dynoing our cars in awd mode, the rears being overspun messes with awd dynos and since our driveline is always spinning - just the RDU clutches disengaged - there should be minimal difference in reported HP/TQ. Do you know what torque you were getting with those numbers? Did you have to do fuel upgrades as well? And I remember seeing a comment from you somewhere about being over 500whp now, what engine mods have you done to support that kind of power?
 

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I have a graph for sure if my water meth not sure I can track down my one after my build. I recently moved so a lot of stuff is packed.
I have a full built 2.3 long block from Livernois.
Hpfp, injectors, direct port meth injection turbonetics big turbo. Catless downpipe. And im sure other little details.
But by far my favorite mod wasthe Meth and tune. I’m also true flex fuel using e85 most the time and for my higher numbers. I never ran it on 93 on the dyno with my current build just in the street.
 

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Wmi definitely has benefits even if used for just cleaning purposes and raising octane value
I mounted my tank in the trunk and have no issues with it there

Tool Audio equipment Gas Trunk Bag
 
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