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thanks for the discussion gents - Full-Race is in the process of releasing our own bolt-on products and complete turbo kits, you will see a lot of this at SEMA next month. The fact is - this is not a simple platform to install a bigger turbo on, we've been at it for a while and 2.3L ecoboost is by far the most technically demanding performance powertrain we've worked with to date. The guys who are selling/promoting kits right now are doing it wrong in my book.
 

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Hi Geoff,

Welcome! Can you tell us more about your products? Do you know if they'll be compatible with the RS? Obviously you are going to use a twin scroll turbo, can you speak in generics as to what FR will be doing right, that is different from what is currently offered? There are a few of us that want to upgrade turbos reasonably quickly on our RS's after the car comes out and I believe we will not have to wait as long as the MEB guys have for this, because a lot of the parts will transfer over or be close to working on the RS.

Thanks


thanks for the discussion gents - Full-Race is in the process of releasing our own bolt-on products and complete turbo kits, you will see a lot of this at SEMA next month. The fact is - this is not a simple platform to install a bigger turbo on, we've been at it for a while and 2.3L ecoboost is by far the most technically demanding performance powertrain we've worked with to date. The guys who are selling/promoting kits right now are doing it wrong in my book.
 

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Mustang EcoBoost is tough to properly modify, Focus RS even moreso. It will happen, and there are a couple ways I expect see it unfold. Right now the suppliers are tooling up for this, 2016 is going to be an interesting year!

I believe most Turbocharging components will not swap between platforms, due to the unique packaging constraints between the chassis and engine orientations. However many of the same engine internal parts will swap from from RS to Mustang - case in point, look at the Ford Racing mustang upgrade cams and head gasket, just rebadged RS parts advertised as the racing upgrade for the mustang ecoboost
 

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We'd love to see any more details and pricing targets as soon as you have anything. HP/Tq targets and stuff help get everyone revved up and putting the pennies aside.

And "by far the most technically demanding performance powertrain we've worked with to date" sounds like more pennies than normal!

Jim
 

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Geoff, do you know if the FoRS 2.3 is going to have the turbo manifold incorporated into the head like the Mustang's 2.3? For some reason I have it in my head that Ford has a couple different versions of the 2.0 head with and without integrated manifolds, so I was wondering about the possibility of the FoRS 2.3 being different from the Mustang 2.3 in that regard.
 

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Can't wait to see what the range of EFR turbos will do on the RS.
 

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One of the testers/engineers is over on NASIOC and has had these things to say (among others). Has this been posted somewhere before on here?

Yes the limits have been tested. They are known quite well. They can add ZERO more power before they affect reliability. In fact they could remove some power and it would make my life easier. If you consider the engine output to be a liquid and the driveline to be the bucket into which it gets pured then I'd say Ford is already pouring 5.2 gallons into a 5 gallon bucket. Where does anyone expect to find margin to modify the engine and add another gallon to that bucket? It will cost a lot of money to make the bucket larger.
...
No, we aren't talking about Hellcats. We also weren't talking about whether or not something is possible. We were talking about whether or not it's probable. I'm sure it's possible to modify the engine and make more power. Someone will do it. I will be truly surprised if Ford is the one to do it. See my comment above. The components into which the torque flows don't have much or any capacity to handle more. It does not make engineering nor fiscal sense for Ford to offer warranted upgrades which negatively impact parts which are already stressed to their maximum?
I wonder how much forewarning he was trying to do, or how much CYA he was trying to do. And I don't meant that as a slight. His job, as a tester, IS to CYA for the company/customer-that-hires-him-Ford.

Mike K
 

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One of the testers/engineers is over on NASIOC and has had these things to say (among others). Has this been posted somewhere before on here?



I wonder how much forewarning he was trying to do, or how much CYA he was trying to do. And I don't meant that as a slight. His job, as a tester, IS to CYA for the company/customer-that-hires-him-Ford.

Mike K
Good read, thanks for posting!
 

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One of the testers/engineers is over on NASIOC and has had these things to say (among others). Has this been posted somewhere before on here?



I wonder how much forewarning he was trying to do, or how much CYA he was trying to do. And I don't meant that as a slight. His job, as a tester, IS to CYA for the company/customer-that-hires-him-Ford.

Mike K
CYA was what I got from that and mostly anything that has been stated on the limits of the system. I have had some reassurance though that he is referring to a particular part that is said to be minor, almost like a driveshaft or maybe halfshafts, the RDU is said to be good. I really find it hard to believe that Mountune is already testing new products to boost power and also there was some talk from Ford about a Track key that could add power, to have the system already be overtasked and beyond its limits.
 

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Do we know what turbo the RS will be running?
No and I would love to know. There is a video of an engineer stating turbo dimensions but I honestly think it was just to play with us because the sizes for the wheels he stated wouldn't even work on a 1.2L let alone a 2.3L. The most we have on that info is twin scroll and a 3mm larger compressor from the Mustang.
 

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Interesting stuff I've read so far. Hopefully its not too random and out of context for you guys to understand what hes saying. :D
(his random posts below)


(him talking about the brake vectoring)
To the best of my knowledge yes they do. If I understand correctly the way Continental has implemented this is at an incredibly low torque level. They use just enough torque to gently tug at the steering wheel and help the driver turn the steering wheel more. They aren't doing anything like the full-bore brake vectoring systems. Those are using heavier brake drags to develop yaw. The RS is more of a suggestion.

****ing marketing vids. I'm sorry, but pressing the Drift mode button doesn't make it oversteer. It helps, but you still need quite a bit of ham-fisting on the steering wheel to get the front to bite in while mashing on the gas to get the back end out. Either that or a reasonable flick and hope you're great at managing traction (or lack there of) and momentum to keep it sideways. We tried Drift mode at the race track. Definitely capable of getting the ass end around, but it doesn't suddenly turn everyone into a pro dorito driver.



101966d1435236914-350ps-confirmed-350ps_2_3-litre_ecoboost.jpg

As I've said before the car is deceptively fast, but power delivery being so linear is almost unimpressive.


I meant that there is no remaining safety factor in some of the components' capacity such that there isn't any overhead for tuners to take advantage of. It will be certified for Ford's intended life cycle. There is zero margin to add more power and still get the thing to last 100k miles. Ford is getting everything they can to make the stock car as good as they can make it while still making it last. (Hes referring to the AWD system)


Not quite. What you see in the screen shot is part of the option menu to configure "Custom" mode. The vehicle has Normal, Sport, Track, Drift, and Custom modes available at the push of the button. Normal, Sport, Track, and Drift automatically select different steering, engine, suspension, ESC/TCS, AWD, exhaust, and throttle settings which it feels are optimum for the pre-defined modes. As the driver you can go into the options and select whatever settings you want to use for these features and your selections become active when you choose "Custom" mode.


No it's not comparable. You'll have to find something better than a Subaru if you want a fair benchmark. A professional race car driver turned 4 total laps in the RS. He had never driven the car before. He turned a 1:29.xxx. In the GT350R and 991 GT3 he was running 1:22.xxx. Looking up laps times from Car & Driver tests at this track the RS is faster than what C&D pulled out of the C6 Corvette. It's also faster than the SCCA Spec Miata track record.

RS was on the standard Pilot Super Sport. It would probably be 1-1.5 seconds faster on the Cup2. I can't find any official lap time at this track for a newer STi or Evo. C&D apparently turned in a 1:34 with an Evo in '08. A friend was running 1:29's last year in a modified '05 STi (turbo swap, swaybars, RCE yellows). Another friend runs 1:28's in his modified '08 135i (gutted exhaust, Dinan tune, KW v3 coilovers, stripped interior with CF racing seats, r-compound rubber). I think I was able to run 1:35-1:40 in my '05 WRX (auto-x prepared for STX) years ago when I took it to this track.


As for the performance in the different modes, none of them will send 70% to the rear. We've covered this before. Ford marketing took some numbers and ran with them. While the system has a high enough capacity to take a large quantity of the overall driveline torque to the rear it is limited by physics and proper vehicle dynamics. The most you're going to see is ~50% of the torque going to the rear under high load events. The rest of the performance is generated by sending more torque to one rear wheel than another to provide yaw assist. Drift mode takes that yaw assist to an extreme level, but still requires you to know how to drive to induce oversteer and then control the vehicle.
 

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They are probably going to be just as fragile as the Evos were in this case.

This makes me want to hold out a year to see what the aftermarket companies come up with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I question what he was saying about the drive train being at 100% capacity, considering that stat that Ford likes to throw around about how all of the ST owners make 6 figures and drop on average 2k on upgrades. I find it hard to believe that with knowledge like that Ford wouldn't put out Mountune parts like they did for the ST and leave all of that money on the table.
 

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I question what he was saying about the drive train being at 100% capacity, considering that stat that Ford likes to throw around about how all of the ST owners make 6 figures and drop on average 2k on upgrades. I find it hard to believe that with knowledge like that Ford wouldn't put out Mountune parts like they did for the ST and leave all of that money on the table.
A lot of this "doubting" going on here with what Scoob has to say. The guy's one of a very small group of engineers working directly on the AWD system. He has no reason to lie and engineers, unlike marketing folks, usually don't. Take it as you may but I highly doubt he's not telling the truth. This doesn't mean people will not tune but like with most cars today, if you tune you're most likely lowering the life of some or all components involved. Doesn't take an engineer to understand or believe that and that's all he's really saying.
 

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I question what he was saying about the drive train being at 100% capacity, considering...
I agree, I have done a lot of quality work with Detroit and before a product is actually released, they want a minimum of 10% safety margin on critical parts. I wonder if this guy has a beef against Ford and is ragging, or if he worked with proto stuff only, or?

Because there is always someone that loads this thing up with 5 beefy guys and goes out to play with Launch mode and drift and every major warranty claim wipes out the profit on (generally) 6+ vehicles.

Jim
 

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A lot of this "doubting" going on here with what Soob has to say. The guy's one of a very small group of engineers working directly on the AWD system. He has no reason to lie and engineers, unlike marketing folks, usually don't. Take it as you may but I highly doubt he's not telling the truth. This doesn't mean people will not tune but like with most cars today, if you tune you're most likely lowering the life of some or all components involved. Doesn't take an engineer to understand or believe that and that's all he's really saying.
Well hopefully since he posted that in July, Ford had his team upgrade the weak links so they can offer performance parts that allow people to keep their warranty. :cool: Because what he was saying is that he didn't think Ford would or should.
 

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I agree, I have done a lot of quality work with Detroit and before a product is actually released, they want a minimum of 10% safety margin on critical parts. I wonder if this guy has a beef against Ford and is ragging, or if he worked with proto stuff only, or?

Because there is always someone that loads this thing up with 5 beefy guys and goes out to play with Launch mode and drift and every major warranty claim wipes out the profit on (generally) 6+ vehicles.

Jim
Agreed. There is going to be ford performance products nearly out the gate that boost power. So that "engineers" opinion on the RS is total BS
 
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