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Ground Control Experience

10K views 33 replies 11 participants last post by  Homage 
#1 ·
I recently switched from Fortune Auto 500s to the Ground Control coilover conversion and camber plates. I finally got the car on track and thought I'd share my experience.

Conclusions first: it's an awesome kit, everyone should buy it!

My setup: GC recommended springs (440f/550r); OE front height, -15mm rear; only -2.2f camber due to interference from the sway bar links (they hit the fender at full steering lock), -1.5r camber. I do not use helper springs. The sway bar keeps pressure on the inside spring when cornering, so no gap.

Road ride is way better than I thought it would be. It might even be better than OE ... My only explanation is the stiffer springs prevent the shock from getting into the crazy high speed damping zone too often, and zero static pre-load always feels good. But it's a guess, and honestly it's not THAT much different. Still bouncy as hell.

On a dry track the car is quite neutral, with a bit of push on entry. On exit it balances nicely, but I think that's RDU voodoo more than setup. I need more camber up front!

Wet track behavior is absolutely fantastic! The RS is balanced and adjustable everywhere with the GC system. If all my track days where wet, I'd never touch a thing. Btw, I tried track, drift, and normal modes in the wet, all with TC completely off. Drift was the most fun (obvious), track seemed best for forward motion, but normal was really good. It seemed closer to "track" than "drift", and the softer throttle helped.
 
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#3 ·
Yes, I'm using OEM dampers, v1 (my car is a 2016). I also thought the dampers would be overwhelmed by these springs, XRJoe. When the shocks go deep into their stroke (big bumps, lots of spring force), they do seem to come back a little fast. But it's just a little, and again the zero pre-load helps. The car feels "settled," not "floaty" when it resets. Honestly, I made this change for camber, and balance mid-corner. I was quite willing to sacrifice ride, and was genuinely surprised that the ride hardly changed.

The OE setup isn't all bad, you can attack curbing really aggressively. On the GC springs the car is even better over curbs, it just gives you huge confidence. The short, stiff springs are pretty much unloaded on the inside, which allows them to absorb the curbing really nicely.
 
#4 ·
I replaced my sway bar end links with Massive links (because they're a touch narrower than OE), and managed to get an extra -0.4 camber. For my last track day camber was -2.4 left, -2.9 right. I'm now at the GC plate limit. My car is at OE ride height on MPSS.

I had a great time, but ripped up the right tire on the inside shoulder, so I guess -2.9 is too much at this height. I'm going with -2.4 on both sides from now on. I may also try a little toe out at the front.
 
#6 ·
I didn't really think of that, tbh. Money is also a factor. Maybe I could have revalved the 500s to match a 450/550lb spring setup and my driving style, but it probably would have taken a few iterations, at ~$1000 a pop I suspect. If I got the valving right the first time it's still ~$2000.

The OE dampers are working for me. On track their behavior is quite good, mostly because there aren't many bumps!

On the street they're pretty bad, but still marginally better than OE (my opinion only). The shocks have very little travel on the RS so the damping has to be very stiff. Unfortunately when the shock gets deep into its travel it seems to need even more compression damping to prevent bottoming (it just crashes through the stroke), and doesn't control the spring well in rebound. I understand the rebound being light since i have really stiff springs, but the high low-speed compression combined with low high-speed compression baffles me. Maybe there are no bumps on Ford's test tracks.

This post reads negatively, but I honestly have not been happier with my RS. Adding -ive camber to the front and balancing the car on stiff springs has totally changed my outlook. Most of the time it feels like the best car in the world to me! I actually can't think of a car I'd rather have for track/street/winter driving. Maybe a modded BRZ. Maybe. But then I'd have to put up with that motor ....
 
#7 ·
I replaced my GC springs with a 'square' setup - 4 x 450lb, 7" springs. I've long thought the stiff rear springs are the reason for the abysmal ride, so I decided to put my money where my mouth is, or was. I installed a stiffer rear sway bar (Steeda) to compensate for the lower spring rate. I raised the car slightly above OE height, so now it's about where a standard FoST sits. As a bonus, I can now raise the car about 25mm above OE height if I want. I maxed out front camber (-2.4 with massive end links), rear is -1.2 since the car is a bit higher.

The ride is just as bad as ever, so that's a fail!

Balance is about the same. I think that's a win, but I'm on the fence. I've only been to one track day, but lucky for me it rained in the morning then dried up. On the wet track the car was its usual magic self, maybe a touch more stable than the GC setup. When the track dried I thought the car was about the same as before (with GC springs).

I saw a big improvement in tire wear. All 4 tires were wearing evenly across the entire tread area. Normally, my car eats front tires, so that's a huge win! I suspect the GC setup was spring binding at the front during high corning loads, resulting in the crazy tire wear. The 7" springs have enough travel so they don't bind in cornering.

I'm staying with the 7" 450lb front springs for sure. I think I'll go back to the GC 550lb, 6.5" springs at the rear.
 
#9 ·
Two things bother me about the ride. It's very stiff, but I can deal with that. And, the rear seems to affect the front too much, which I thought was spring rate. If I had $5000 to spend I'm sure MCS would solve most of the issues. But, with such low travel suspension the RS really does need stiff shocks. No, I didn't ask GC about solutions. I think they're doing a great job with the OE components.
 
#10 ·
I went with the same set up 440f/550r and was thinking the same that the rear was too stiff. Thanks for giving it a try. Maybe I’ll go to a bit stiffer spring up front. I’m curious if you removed the lower spring perch from the stock shocks? Some people said they were welded on, however I found I was able to get them off just by pounding on them with a dead blow hammer. I definitely have more negative camber adjustment now.
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#12 ·
I don't have the FA. I think your setup might be a bit soft with the lighter FA compression damping, but worth a try! If it's too soft put the 430s in front and get some 500s for the back.
I'm getting a DSC controller, and may try 8" 450lb square with it. 7" 450lb may have been bottoming at the back (coil binding).
 
#29 ·
Finally got around to installing the Fortune's with the 400 front/425 rear. I have the damping set at middle of the road and it feels sooo soft it's almost unsettling. I can feel the car squat some under hard acceleration. However, on the one turn I hit after doing an install test drive the car seemed to soak it up smoothly. I still need to get an alignment (hunkered down right now), but do I have Stockholm Syndrome from the OEM setup or does the FA500 system not seem dampened enough? Just wondering if you have a similar feeling... hence going back to OEM?
 
#16 ·
They switch fast enough to open up the full use of the damper compared having to make do with half the range in manual mode. So a worth while gain if you not going full Tractive.
 
#18 ·
Probably splitting words, here, okay reactive. The DSC responds to vehicle input and actions the dampers, in around 35 milliseconds if I recall correctly. Which opens up the full range of the damper automatically, rather than pushing a button.
I believe full active has motion sensors on dampers, which no system offers on the RS because the car doesn’t support it.
No sure what you point is really, adding a DSC certainly makes a worthwhile improvement.
 
#19 ·
Probably splitting words, here, okay reactive. The DSC responds to vehicle input and actions the dampers, in around 35 milliseconds if I recall correctly. Which opens up the full range of the damper automatically, rather than pushing a button.
I believe full active has motion sensors on dampers, which no system offers on the RS because the car doesn’t support it.
No sure what you point is really, adding a DSC certainly makes a worthwhile improvement.
Obviously my point is that ". . . converts OEM into active reducing dive, squat, roll . . ." is BS

Yes. Good if you want to compromise low frequency response for high frequency response. I wanted this to work for me. It didn't.

But then, lots of folks prefer a Prius over a McClaren.
 
#20 ·
I have dsc and tractive suspension. I configure the dsc for my needs. One of the things it can do is detect lateral and longitudinal Gs, plus brake line pressure. If the standard shock is in road mode it would detect high brake line pressure and select track mode as fast as possible.... hence less dive. Using lat and long G it can change modes too to stiffen the car on cornering.

So, if the dsc runs road as low g no brake mode and applies track stiffness when required it is doing anti squat, dive etc. I first ran just the dsc and you can definitely feel it. Now with tractive it has a much wider range. Of course, anti dive is not mechanical but it is still very noticeable and works. Not sure why this is BS? Am I missing something? Of course, it is not full active with dynamic springs but it's a good approximation.
 
#21 ·
Because the stock dampers simply cannot react fast enough. Period.

And " . . . standard shock is in road mode it would detect high brake line pressure and select track mode as fast as possible . . ." is not at all possible

" . . .dsc runs road as low g no brake mode and applies track stiffness when required . . ." is also incorrect. In each mode the controller references a G Force table and valves the tractive shocks accordingly. It does not switch modes.

With the stiff stock damping I did not have a brake squat issue. The imagination is a wonderful thing.
 
#23 ·
@DeanHart, Your just been argumentative, so ride around on the stiff setting all the time and have no issues then? You can’t because on anything less than a billiard table smooth surface they are unusable. The work around the DSC offers and works is to make use off all the dampers range automatically, yes with in the limited response time of the OEM dampers. If you dispute DSC claims take it up with DSC or the advertising standards authority. End of the day it offers an improvement in a unique way. The alternatives is to rip the springs and dampers off and fit something else, not everyone is up for that. Really don’t get what your beef is. If you wanted a state of the art suspension system why did you buy a Focus?
 
#26 ·
I got my DSC Controller installed. It was so easy I thought I was doing something wrong! So far I'm very happy.

On bumpy roads the ride is improved immensely. Some roads I previously avoided because of the terrible bumps are now bearable. Oddly, to me at least, on normal roads the ride is about the same as OE, maybe a touch better. I think there's still some bounce. Body control is at least equal to OE on the street. Remember, my springs are way stiffer than OE, and I'm using the default RS settings so far.

One key adjustable parameter is the damping "range." I suspect the minimum damping force set for the OE springs is a touch high because light springs need more compression damping. I'm not getting any bottoming over the big bumps, so I suspect the max damping is pretty close.

I think I could use more rebound damping (no surprise). The rebound feels a bit uncontrolled as the spring tops out, even though my GC setup has zero preload. Anybody know how to adjust rebound on this controller?

Sport mode is now much closer to normal mode, and finally seems usable. I haven't had a chance to push the car yet (OK, maybe a few drifty moments ?), that'll have to wait for the track.

The adjustable suspension parameters are just incredible, more than anything I've experienced before. Shock damping can react to g-force, brakes, accell, as well as the overall range I mentioned. It's a bit daunting!
 
#27 ·
The DSC controller is a great mod, even without the Tractive setup. The settings in the controller are calibrated for the stock spring rates, so consider reaching out to the guys at DSC and asking for their recommendations on modifying the calibration for your stiffer spring rates. There probably isn't too much to be done, due to the limitations of the stock dampers, but new settings may be able to help with the ride issues you're experiencing. There's a good chance that Jeremy or Harris may just send you a calibration file for your setup too.
 
#30 ·
If the OE dampers kidnapped you, and now you're in love with them, then, yes; Stockholm syndrome! But no one could fall in love with the OE dampers; such an abusive relationship! :)

I found the FA500 too soft for my use. I was experiencing coil bind over big bumps and hard cornering. At the track, my inputs had to be very smooth to avoid slamming the suspension to the stops. "Too soft" is a combination of spring rate and damping. Almost everybody finds OE setting "too hard" even though the springs are very soft. Ergo, the damping is VERY hard. To me, the OE dampers are over-damped in compression.

I think compression damping of the FA500 is too soft for the spring rates for me. The ride is nice and smooth with not much deterioration of steering feel. But I had the damping maxed out and still thought it was too soft in compression. I had 400 on the front but they only offered 300 for the rear. How did you fit 425s?
 
#31 ·
I think compression damping of the FA500 is too soft for the spring rates for me. The ride is nice and smooth with not much deterioration of steering feel. But I had the damping maxed out and still thought it was too soft in compression. I had 400 on the front but they only offered 300 for the rear. How did you fit 425s?
If you're happy with the feel of the dampers, you could buy longer springs of the same rate and raise the car a bit. The additional bump travel might solve any bottoming issues.
I still think the RS on FA500s is better than stock, but mainly because of the neg camber available. Neg camber up front transforms the car. Adding mechanical grip to the front axle takes the pressure off the (frankly amazing) torque vectoring system, balancing the car beautifully. Drift Mode finally works!

With my FA500 at max height (about 1" lower than stock), I set -2.2 camber; 0 toe.
With GC my car is at stock height, and I set -2.5 camber; -0.2 toe. I'm guessing that's about -3.0 camber at a 1" drop.
 
#33 ·
Ansibe - Good to hear you like your new DSC controller. The OE shocks are single adjustable, so no separate rebound or compression control thru the controller. And that's also true with the TracTive shocks according to Tom @ DSC which is very disappointing. I do plan on getting the controller.
 
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