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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

First post and Happy New year to everyone firstly. :cool:

Secondly, I am curious on what users opinions and those that have had an AMG A45(old+new series) are and how it compares to the new Focus RS.
Specifically the 2016 model of the AMG A45 which has yet to be be released ??? (sorry I don't follow Mercedes in detail)

Coming from a STI '99 only 100K on clock original owner, I am very inclined to go with Bang for your buck Focus RS and the high torque boost mode (7 sec) @ 470Nm has me very interested.
I have booked a test drive(for next year when it arrives) and could go tomorrow to dealership and put a deposit on Focus RS but am patient and curious what does another $30K with the A45 AMG offer in comparison? I probably will test drive this car next year as well just to compare what this car offers.

I dislike the fart noise of the gearbox on the VW's, Audi's and probably Mercedes too. I appreciate this makes these cars faster but there is something inherently raw with the STI (@ 1270kg and over 206Kw of power) that I am craving for and hope to be found in the more heavier Focus RS(1500kg?) and ecoboost engine with drift mode. I am also strictly a manual gearbox driver only.

Finally, can anyone confirm timing chain or timing belt on the Focus RS?

Happy 2016 everyone and hopefully I will see my Focus RS( all options including lighter wheels and better tires) in 2016 :)
 

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Overboost lasts 18 sec and is instantly resetably if you lift off the throttle. The rs has a timing chain
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Overboost lasts 18 sec and is instantly resetably if you lift off the throttle. The rs has a timing chain
Thank you very much for that info and detail.
Is the overboost activated by user control and furthermore regarding the AWD system it seems to be a modified haldex system. I have read that up to 99% of torque can be enabled to rear left or right in drift mode. What distribution in drift mode and other modes is biased to front and rear? i.e. is it F/R --10/90; 30/70; 40/60; 50/50? what is available ?
 

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If by user control you mean putting your foot to the floor, then yes. I don't believe that it's associated with a specific driving mode or anything, if that's what you're asking.

The AWD system has no association with Haldex, and Ford execs have publicly bashed Haldex as being unable to deliver the performance that you would expect from a performance car. It has clutches and is electronically controlled, yes, but so are many AWD systems.

This question has been discussed at length in other places on this forum. Official literature says up to 70% can go to the rear axle and 100% of that rear torque can go to each side. Reviewers say that 70% is a bit lower than what they see in real world testing, but we don't have a better answer than that right now. And all of it is continuously variable at all times. There is never a set ratio.


Out of curiosity, where are you from, Paolo?
 

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It definitely isnt haldex. Its a gkn rear drive unit. There is no set torque split, its 100% variable. And with a higher final ratio of over 1.5% In the rear when power is sent rearward it becomes the primary driving force of the car making it all but rear wheel drive. The best part of it all is the way the ecu will transfer the power from side to side during cornering. It does this based on steering angle, yaw, individual wheel speeds, and throttle position. It should all work together and make for a fun car
 

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Secondly, I am curious on what users opinions and those that have had an AMG A45(old+new series) are and how it compares to the new Focus RS.
Specifically the 2016 model of the AMG A45 which has yet to be be released ??? (sorry I don't follow Mercedes in detail)

Coming from a STI '99 only 100K on clock original owner, I am very inclined to go with Bang for your buck Focus RS and the high torque boost mode (7 sec) @ 470Nm has me very interested.
I have booked a test drive(for next year when it arrives) and could go tomorrow to dealership and put a deposit on Focus RS but am patient and curious what does another $30K with the A45 AMG offer in comparison? I probably will test drive this car next year as well just to compare what this car offers.
I was also looking at the RS3 and the AMG. Both seem to be remarkable vehicles, but I was struck by the near uniform expressions of the journalists who have driven them. No one seemed to be impressed by the handling characteristics of either car. And; although both are much, much more expensive, it seemed to be the same complaint as with the VW-R. They both have that same sucky understeering feeling towards the limit. Even with their prodigious grip, no one liked that plowing front end. They just weren't as fun as a $60,000 car should be. Granted, both are tear your face off fast, but there was near unanimity that they weren't delivering sixty K's worth of driving excitement. I'm hoping the RS has found the driving magic that the RS3 and the AMG 45 seem to lack.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Kudos to all the terrific answers :)
Seems the awd system is rather unique being more active based on road conditions etc. I know with my sti I can distribute max 60 rear and 40 front using center dial console and when off 50/50 but as you can imagine fuel economy is a shocker.
Yeah the A45 and RS3 look like rockets but what about driver input /feed? I'd like to know does all that electronic wizardry take the fun out of driving cause as much as I am driving a fossil, the driver input to get 100%max out of sti is very satisfying.

I guess we'll see in the new year mid Jan is embargo release?? when it will be compared by the motoring journalists.
 

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AMGs are only available in automatic, so no point in looking at it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Yeah I have read more about the awd system and am slightly concerned that it can go FWD when the RUD turns off(therefore not constant awd system). They certainly haven't explained it in depth as to what bias rear front is in certain driving conditions and what constitutes those conditions.

Only point they have made is max 70 rear and 30 front and its not adjustable which is also a worry cause I think the computer may get stuck in snow not sure... The twinnster looks great on rear with dual L R clutch, but front axle with brake torque vectoring and no twinnster is a worry or am I too anal about it???

Sorry guys just use to the STi AWD setup and wondering if this new system is of lesser or better quality.
 

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Yeah I have read more about the awd system and am slightly concerned that it can go FWD when the RUD turns off(therefore not constant awd system). They certainly haven't explained it in depth as to what bias rear front is in certain driving conditions and what constitutes those conditions.

Only point they have made is max 70 rear and 30 front and its not adjustable which is also a worry cause I think the computer may get stuck in snow not sure... The twinnster looks great on rear with dual L R clutch, but front axle with brake torque vectoring and no twinnster is a worry or am I too anal about it???

Sorry guys just use to the STi AWD setup and wondering if this new system is of lesser or better quality.
Paolo, coming from the STi is going to be interesting. The STi and the Evo have very sophisticated, but also, very complex mechanical AWD systems. And they perform very well indeed. The RS is a much, much simpler mechanical system that has a vastly more sophisticated electronic interface. A lot of us are betting that the future favors the latter system.

Regarding the e-diff front drive: Ford (and GKN) have made special note of the fact that the advanced RDU controller makes it unnecessary for that system to come into play as prominently as it needs to on a FWD only system. So much so that in the Track mode, it will only really be called on to save your ass if you really upset the car.
 

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The AWD system is unlike most, the user doesn't control it, the user sets it's attitude.

When the car demands 100% of the rear wheels to be doing the work, it will INSTANTLY, in shifting the power to the rear... or all around as needed. There is not a 70% / 30% split, as the RS's power can constantly be splitting torque anyway it wants, done by algorithm & software... based on some very simple mechanics.


Nothing about the RS's AWD GKN system is unknown.. we clearly know how it works and this has been discussed now. The only unknown is how Ford has "tuned it" and whether or not the components can take an off road beating.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Interesting, being heavily biased electronic interface rather than mechanical detecting every 1/100 seconds for varying road conditions is unique and possibly the way of the future.

However, say I can see varying road conditions ahead of me about 100m down the road.
I guess I strap in tight and wait for the computer to adjust to it rather than me user intervention?

Please excuse my concern cause I am use to a mechanical awd with dccd adjustability for what I can see ahead of me and I adjust accordingly.

I am going to study the AMG a45 awd system not expecting that to be any better but haldex keeps popping into my head the more I try to hypothesize how these different awd system works.
 

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I can almost guarantee the RS awd will make purely mechanical awd archaic in road going applications. It's lighter, more responsive and more dynamic. There's a reason why the GTR awd was partially developed by gkn, why ford went with them and why tons of other manufacturers are starting to collaborate with them as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I am starting to agree... Hehe
Essentially, is the focus RS an AMG A45 but 20-30k cheaper identical in terms of driveshaft and engine?

I have noticed new AMG A45 has more power and higher torque (475Nm) in 2016 model. It will probably be a fraction faster than focus RS all round? Do others agree?
 

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I haven't researched the Benz' awd so couldn't comment but straight line the Mercedes is probably faster, I'd probably bank on the RS in corners. but what do I know!
 

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I am starting to agree... Hehe
Essentially, is the focus RS an AMG A45 but 20-30k cheaper identical in terms of driveshaft and engine?

I have noticed new AMG A45 has more power and higher torque (475Nm) in 2016 model. It will probably be a fraction faster than focus RS all round? Do others agree?
I agree with Solhaven. The GLA45 is already faster 0-60 before it gets the new engine. With no manual, older Haldex AWD technology, the RS may narrow or eliminate the advantage on the track, but we'll have to see. More expensive to buy and maintain. Of course, none of us have driven the RS yet. We'll have to mod the RS to match the power and twist on the new A45.
 
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