Not necessarily, depends on the duty cycle of the stock direct injectors and fuel pump. FlexFuel sensor most likely not required either unless you want to not have to worry about swapping tunes manually for different gas blends. From what I have heard about the stock fueling system in the EB mustang, injectors and pump are stout and shouldn't need an upgrade until power figures much higher than stock.You will need a sensor, larger injectors and a tune.
I've really been thinking about this and posting the question up. I'm coming from a disi so I know the woes of fueling and lack there if with direct injection. I really want to see what the IDC for these injectors are and how far we can push it on stock fueling.Not necessarily, depends on the duty cycle of the stock direct injectors and fuel pump. FlexFuel sensor most likely not required either unless you want to not have to worry about swapping tunes manually for different gas blends. From what I have heard about the stock fueling system in the EB mustang, injectors and pump are stout and shouldn't need an upgrade until power figures much higher than stock.
I run E85 on my BRZ, and have for the past year straight, and all that was required is a tune. Only downside is that economy takes a hit (20-25% less efficient).
Typically in most modern cars, the fuel system materials and engine internals can run E85 no problem (older cars may require swapping of fuel lines as well).
Just did a quick search and couldn't find any tuners with an E85 tune for the EB mustang engine yet, so there may be some issues...
Something tells me other things may break before internal engine parts.I've really been thinking about this and posting the question up. I'm coming from a disi so I know the woes of fueling and lack there if with direct injection. I really want to see what the IDC for these injectors are and how far we can push it on stock fueling.
I say we need nothing more than E30. The tuner in me really wants to see one in the real world and what it will take to blow it up so we can find the weak spots.
What will go first? My guess will be the rods
HPFP is a cam driven pump at the rail. Not an in-tank pump like you seem to be talking about. Port fuel cars don't have HPFPs, so I'm not sure why you seem to be hinting that it's an advantage for DI to have them. It's required to reach the pressure levels needed to atomize the fuel.Direct injection already has a hpfp and big injectors. I doubt with just a tune you Will need a bigger pump or injectors even with E85. I'm sure enough "safety" room is there with just a tune. However with intake and exhaust and a custom tune I'm sure you would need to upgrade the pump and injectors. As I recall seeing somewhere that the RS comes with 1,400 cc injectors. To run E85 I'm sure one would want 2,000-2,400 cc injectors with DI. I only have 1,000cc injectors on my STi and was told to bump up my injector size if I wanted more power on E85 tune. Tuner said I should atleast have 2,000 cc injectors and bigger ones if and when I hit 650 horse on E85.
So E85 has a higher viscosity ? It sounds like you have to make quite a few changes to retrofit and allow E85. Is it worth it? What would you gain going to E85 or even E30 over 93 octane gasoline?E85 is inherently more harsh on all of your fueling system. Right out of the box, this car won't be able to handle it.
Bosch HPFPs are inherently marginal in terms of flow. It'll definitely need a pump.
Your injectors will likely need an upgrade also. The stock actual fuel injection ports are very small. Simply upping the pressure won't produce enough flow to support E85 without causing cavitation/flow issues in your rail. However, just dropping injectors with larger ports isn't quite the greatest option either. As that port size increases, your ability to properly atomize the fuel decreases, which then decreases your timing advance, as knock is more of a possibility. The cooling factor of E85 makes that kind of a moot point, but it's still an issue.
Now, on to your low pressure fueling:
The Bosch in tank pump won't like E85 either. Here's why:
E85 requires more amperage and RPM to flow the same amount of fuel (read - thicker, in layman's terms), which will erode your brushes much faster than running normal pump fuel. E85 rated pumps have essentially a spark advance on them, in regards to the brushes/commutator setup, which allows them to create more torque, in turn pumping fuel easier. Another point: E85 is nasty stuff when it dries out. It will film up the commutator if left dry, and anything else it comes in contact with. This is pretty easily remedied by just keeping your gas tank semi full, or running a tank of 93 through once in a while (eventually you will get diminishing returns though).
E85 is also conductive. Normal pump gas has conductance in the picosiemens range, E85 is in the microsiemens range (a pretty big difference, albeit with relatively small units). Your pump terminals and brushes need to be insulated from the fuel in order to prevent any sort of discharge. Your pump casing needs to be in the ground circuit as well, as they're generally conductive, and are in contact with the E85 on the outside of the pumping chamber, and in have static build up from the flow of the fuel being pumped.
Last but not least, your seals/any rubber in the entire system need to be rated for ethanol content. Ones that aren't swell and can crack any sort of quick connects in the system. With a newer car like this, they're likely rated for E10-E15, so they may not swell.
With all that said, I run E85 in my Subaru WRX swap. That car has a proper E85 pump and E85 safe injector seals. The rest on it, I haven't replaced. Should I? Probably, but is it likely something is going to happen, not really. That's also a car that costs 1/10th of what the Focus RS does, so I'll be leaving mine at stock, or best an E30 mix.
While what Cam said is true... it is not really a concern in practice. All performance DI platforms are running Ethanol/gas mixtures using the stock hardware and there hasn't been any long term effects beyond some gumming of the injectors on older platforms. The stock LPFP will probably be the first road block, then the HPFP and then the injectors. A drop in Walbro 450lph pump should fix the LPFP problem and then the HPFP/injectors will either be replaced with higher flowing units or supplemented by a secondary port fueling system. The latter route is the one I went with my 135i and it works great.So E85 has a higher viscosity ? It sounds like you have to make quite a few changes to retrofit and allow E85. Is it worth it? What would you gain going to E85 or even E30 over 93 octane gasoline?