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DSC/Tractive Programming

39K views 213 replies 25 participants last post by  phillofoc 
#1 · (Edited)
It's time we consolidate the experiences on the software side of the full DSC Controller / Tractive shocks installs.

Share your thoughts, maps etc!

Ground rules:

1 - Full setup only, no stock dampers, no KW DDC.
2 - Accept that my perfect suspension may not be yours, and vice versa
3 - Hopefully ride height, swaybars, wheels / tires, alignment, and other mods are sorted before tuning the shocks
4 - Please share your goals and suspension mods
 
#2 ·
@DeanHart you should have started us off with your details!

Other than the DSC+Tractive, I'm pretty close to the stock suspension specs. I did raise the front about 1/2 inch to level out the car. Primary goals were to make the car comfortable to drive as a daily and on road trips. I raised the front to stop scraping on driveways.

After some fiddling I've settled with modifying the shock calibration on Normal/Touring only from what was put out in Feb 2020. Currently the fronts vary 1750 to 200, and the rears 1550-600 mAh.

I'm still fighting the full stiff gremlins. I suppose that this is just a fact of life for DSC+Tractive users in the US.
 
#7 ·
@DeanHart you should have started us off with your details!

Other than the DSC+Tractive, I'm pretty close to the stock suspension specs. I did raise the front about 1/2 inch to level out the car. Primary goals were to make the car comfortable to drive as a daily and on road trips. I raised the front to stop scraping on driveways.

After some fiddling I've settled with modifying the shock calibration on Normal/Touring only from what was put out in Feb 2020. Currently the fronts vary 1750 to 200, and the rears 1550-600 mAh.

I'm still fighting the full stiff gremlins. I suppose that this is just a fact of life for DSC+Tractive users in the US.
Darn, still?

Is it the LR open error?

Grrrr
 
#3 ·
I think I had the fourth controller in NA, and the third full install.

Goals - street, daily driver, track. Maximize performance with some comfort.
Mods - front eccentric camber bushings, increased caster with lower control arm bushings, whiteline 22mm rear sway bar on soft, lowered 1 inch maintaining rake, stiffer rear springs, -2.5 front camber, increased caster, zero toe all around.

What I like:

Track mode for the track, sport mode on the street. However, my default mode is track with the option of switching to normal dampers with the stalk. Magic.

General strategy
Flat ride for the RS requires stiffer rear springs. Get the motion ratio right and all else should work out.

Compliance is fast.

DSC Shock calibration table is most important.
DSC gForce Table determines the dynamics of the chassis.
DSC gForce Comfort Parameters should be left conservative.
Brake table and access table must not interfere with other tables

Have a 'test track' for repeatable assessment of changes

More soon!
 
#4 ·
Here is a thread from user @misterchonger copied here:

He has looked at the Golf R and Nissan GTR maps and explored

" . . Have you played around much with the GForce map in the controller? Ever since I've had the kit and autocrossed the car, I've felt it has more body roll than it should. I think I discovered why this is and it's due to how DSC mapped the GForce table for this car. Specifically, how they stiffen one front shock and soften the opposite front shock during corner loading. I think this is causing the weight transfer.

I remapped The GForce table in one of the modes so the front shocks are always changing in the same manner, all else the same between the two modes being tested. I tested the differences between maps and the car feels like it corners flatter with my own changes . . ."

And

". . . The more I get familiar with the FORS calibration, the more questions I have on why DSC set up the calibration the way they did. For example, I took a look at the GForce maps for a Golf R and GTR and neither of those GForce maps are like the Focus RS. The weight transfer does keep some playfulness in the car so I may leave that in one of the other modes . . ."

These changes are actually very profound and completely jibe with reading I had been doing on the Porsche forums!
 
#5 ·
I have tested @misterchongers changes and incorporated the new gForce tables as follows:

Normal
gForce table has expanded the 'no load' central values, and maintained the soft inside front settings


Text Line Font Number Design


Sport
Here is the significant change - all four shock values change with gForce.
When testing this I was amazed at the sharp turn in and support through a turn!

341140



Furthermore . . .
 
#6 ·
So, I went for a drive. And then another change, then another drive. Repeat until happy. For a week . . .

But I'm quite happy with the result (posted below)


Normal
Modified gForce table as above. Shock calibration tweaked for extra plush 1850ma from
0 to 20% and then to 'out of range' values at 100%. So extra soft but quickly firms up
F 1850 0 to 20% then to 300
R 1800 0 to 20% then 200

341148


Sport
MrChongers excellent gForce table. Shocks conservative at F 1700 - 600 R 1600 - 400


Track
I used the original DSC gForce table - I found with stiffer shock calibration and aggressive driving the new gForce table caused mid corner unsettling and skipped over bumps. I feared curbs would bounce the car off line. Oh well - it's still brilliant.
Shocks at F 1600 - 600 R 1500 - 600

341149



I had unpredictable outcomes when 'stretching' the gForce comfort parameters. I took DSC's Tom Chan's advice from the Porsche forums and left these conservative for all modes.

So, here's the PDTS file. You'll have to rename the file extension back to .pdts





Play safe share your thoughts
 

Attachments

#8 ·
@DeanHart
Brilliant idea I’m up for this. 👍

I’m still using the second revision map from DSC 2018. Life unfortunately has got in the way of looking at the calibration tables and having a play. This is something I’m really quite interested in knowing more about.

Ive fitted all the mechanical aids the suspension is getting; they are Eibach F&R arb’s, Steeda rear arb alloy mounts, Steeda USA F&R drop links set to factory length, wheels 19” x 8.5 OZ. Add to this the Tractive Rev 2 or 3 rear springs. This spec isn’t going to change. So that’s my starting point mechanically.

From this point on it’ll be electronic tweeking and I really look forward to people posting on this subject as I’d like to learn more on the subject 👍
 
#11 ·
As I've found that resetting the DSC controller by pulling the fuse, I wired up a switch inspired by this page:


I wasn't going to buy a $60+ fuse switch kit, so I channeled my inner @Shimmer and made/installed it in about 20 minutes.
 
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#12 ·
@DeanHart, I see that you modified the Accel table. Are you feeling any difference when launching? The DSC manual says that you have to hold the clutch pedal and do a quick 100% press of the accelerator pedal to go into launch mode. I emailed DSC about the stock settings, but the guys said that it helps with weight transfer (which doesn't make a lot of sense with a FWD-based car).
 
#13 ·
Great idea Dean. For those interested, I wrote quite a bit on some of the stuff I discovered, some theory and also a discussion about tuning the brake table for gravel and autocross. The link below goes direct to it but ignore the 5ext 8n the link, it's not my posts

 
#14 ·
Big thanks to @DeanHart for getting this started as it's probably been a bit overdue. I'm glad to hear your positive feedback for the GForce table remap. I had more or less the same experience. Immediately noticed the change in sharp turn in, reduced body roll, quick rate of weight transfer. If this sounds familiar, its because this simulates having a really big front sway bar. However during aggressive driving where you get into higher G loads, there just wasn't enough compliance.

I've asked Harry at DSC about their strategy for laying out the GForce tables but never got a response. Though digging through interwebz and testing, I have a good idea now why they soften the inside shock and it has a lot to do with compliance over track curbing. This makes sense as I think the maps were developed by Mike Levitas on an actual track.

I think you have the right approach in keeping the DSC track tables for track events. I plan to do that as well but continue to develop a configuration for AutoX, where you need quick weight transfer but also need compliance to deal with different site surfaces as well as corner entry/exit.

A little info about my setup:

Full Tractive Setup (no issues with full stiff)
Front and rear ~1/2" lower than stock
Whiteline Front Sway bar at middle setting, Whiteline Rear Sway bar at stiff setting
 
#16 ·
I've been spending some time with the Tractive dampers on the as-shipped controller map from DSC - update 3/16/20. Trying to develop my feel for the car with this config. as the baseline before I start tweaking.

Looking into the tuning now and have a question that perhaps those of you more experienced can answer.

Why does the 3/16/20 file have the rear shocks calibrated from 1500ma to 400ma when the help section states that the operating range of the Tractive dampers is "1900mA is full soft and 500mA is full stiff?" Why have the calibration setting at 400ma when the lowest stated is 500ma?

I'll ask DSC directly, but thought one of you may have had this question already.
 
#28 ·
I think that DSC reduced the current because of the full stiff issues. When receiving my latest controller, it had the file you mentioned loaded to reduce the chances of a full stiff event. When initially speaking with Jeremy about it, he was mentioning that we are cruising around at 2000mAh for more time than intended, which was causing issues. He wasn't excited when he saw that I had 1800mAh loaded as full soft. This car is uncomfortable at 1600mAh, maybe even worse than stock IMHO.

I like the analysis from everyone. I just thought I'd chuck in what DSC says on their website about the RS map.

Note, I think this implies it is possible to run 2000ma to 0ma as the extreme range of current settings. I need to make a 2000ma everywhere calibration table, plus a 1900 and an 1800 and switch between them to see if this is true at the high current range. The lowest I have seen on any maps is 200ma, from DSC. I'm still laid up so it will be a long time before I can do these tests.

Does The DSC Sport Allow Softness And Stiffness Settings Beyond Those Of Stock?

Yes. Stock Normal mode is 20% stiffness. Stock Sport mode is 80% stiffness. DSC Normal mode is a range of 5% to 100% stiffness. DSC Sport mode is a range of 20% to 100%. DSC is active so it uses those ranges in each mode to the level of load to command individual shocks.
Some advantages of our standard map are:
1) during cornering the front inside damper is always softer to allow climbing up to inside track curbing without upsetting the chassis.
2) during hard braking the front damper compression and rear damper rebound increase to help reduce dive to improve front and rear tire grip.
3) during initial cornering the damping starts out soft and then stiffen up relative to the amount of g-force to load the tires more progressively.
You don't need to make a full soft map for testing. If you use the "A" command where you would use the "I" command to check for faults, it will command full soft (probably whatever you have commanded at 0% in the Calibration page). I haven't used it extensively, but I expect that it would last for at least one drive cycle or worst case until you reset the board.

Regarding the bolded part above, I'm pretty sure that's true for the Golf R (and likely other vehicles). The stock RS controller and damper setup is like a light switch, full soft (off) on all modes except track (on, 500mAh). You can run the Tractive dampers at 0 mAh, but I wouldn't recommend it. Your tires become the dampers at that point.
 
#23 ·
I like the analysis from everyone. I just thought I'd chuck in what DSC says on their website about the RS map.

Note, I think this implies it is possible to run 2000ma to 0ma as the extreme range of current settings. I need to make a 2000ma everywhere calibration table, plus a 1900 and an 1800 and switch between them to see if this is true at the high current range. The lowest I have seen on any maps is 200ma, from DSC. I'm still laid up so it will be a long time before I can do these tests.

Does The DSC Sport Allow Softness And Stiffness Settings Beyond Those Of Stock?

Yes. Stock Normal mode is 20% stiffness. Stock Sport mode is 80% stiffness. DSC Normal mode is a range of 5% to 100% stiffness. DSC Sport mode is a range of 20% to 100%. DSC is active so it uses those ranges in each mode to the level of load to command individual shocks.
Some advantages of our standard map are:
1) during cornering the front inside damper is always softer to allow climbing up to inside track curbing without upsetting the chassis.
2) during hard braking the front damper compression and rear damper rebound increase to help reduce dive to improve front and rear tire grip.
3) during initial cornering the damping starts out soft and then stiffen up relative to the amount of g-force to load the tires more progressively.
 
#26 ·
I like the analysis from everyone. I just thought I'd chuck in what DSC says on their website about the RS map.

Note, I think this implies it is possible to run 2000ma to 0ma as the extreme range of current settings. I need to make a 2000ma everywhere calibration table, plus a 1900 and an 1800 and switch between them to see if this is true at the high current range. The lowest I have seen on any maps is 200ma, from DSC. I'm still laid up so it will be a long time before I can do these tests.

Does The DSC Sport Allow Softness And Stiffness Settings Beyond Those Of Stock?

Yes. Stock Normal mode is 20% stiffness. Stock Sport mode is 80% stiffness. DSC Normal mode is a range of 5% to 100% stiffness. DSC Sport mode is a range of 20% to 100%. DSC is active so it uses those ranges in each mode to the level of load to command individual shocks.
Some advantages of our standard map are:
1) during cornering the front inside damper is always softer to allow climbing up to inside track curbing without upsetting the chassis.
2) during hard braking the front damper compression and rear damper rebound increase to help reduce dive to improve front and rear tire grip.
3) during initial cornering the damping starts out soft and then stiffen up relative to the amount of g-force to load the tires more progressively.
All true, but the controllers - esp the earlier versions - may have an under spec'd power supply. Thus 1900ma is the max recommended juice.

Out of range values are fine for lower voltages, though hazardous to the controller at higher voltages

Heal up fast - we need your seat time feedback
 
#32 ·
OMG! You guys are great. Hope we can all benefit for the passion of our cars, driving in general and the spirit of community. Thanks for all the sharing here. I don't have the DSC yet but will, and will be on here as I use diff maps and create my own. All good dudes! Keep up the good work. Lord knows Ford didn't. Really too bad. This car could have been so bad ass in the future out of the factory with years of development!
 
#33 ·
@RoughRoadDD Jeremy is one of the guys at DSC who deals with the RS. Harris is the other RS guy, IIRC he has an RS.

@misterchonger thanks for the info on the accel tables. I've been in a situation more than once in the wet where accelerating from a stop at a leisurely pace going uphill I would lift a front tire and would spin it until the RDU kicked in.

I used electronic connector cleaner and conditioner where the dampers connect to the stock wiring again yesterday, along with my fancy switch to reset the controller. So far so good, but I haven't driven the car enough since to know for sure.
 
#34 ·
@misterchonger thanks for the info on the accel tables. I've been in a situation more than once in the wet where accelerating from a stop at a leisurely pace going uphill I would lift a front tire and would spin it until the RDU kicked in.
Glad to hear your similar experiences. DSC's accel tables have the rear squat during launch and acceleration. You may like the reversed tables better. What I use now for the accel tables is actually an equal command to all shocks. To me, that felt like the least amount of weight shifting

341274
.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Thanks for info on dsc risk. I have now contacted ds direct and will see if I can get comment. Ill follow this up to ensure it is clarified. I wonder if it is batch specific and was fixed?

@DeanHart What happened when the controller died, did you have to pay for replacement? If it is used as intended and with tractive suspension then failure is not fit for purpose.

When I'm healthy again I'll instrument the box and check temperatures.

Btw, I'm happy to set up and manage a Dropbox where we can share files and classify as to purpose. The sort of use I am thinking of is we might have folders to show intent, say ready2go, road, sport, track, drift, autocross, gravel, experiments/testing. Each file would have a short document with explanation and feedback. Ready2Go being config you could load with all modes covered and drive away. The others folders each providing a config to slot in so you can roll your own ready2go, or do testing.

What does everyone think?
 
#39 ·
@RoughRoadDD

No, all was handled under warranty and replacements shipped before I returned my units. Super helpfull. Diagnosis was done remotely with excellent support from DSC. Note that you may log the data from the system.

I use dropbox . . . good idea

Surprising how much time the testing of changes takes!
 
#40 ·
I've done some more tinkering on the accel table. Started with the Audi S3 table as the weight distribution is almost the same as ours, dropped the effect by 7/8ths for the rear (so at 100% throttle we get 12.5% stiffness vs 100%), and set the front to 1% for all throttle settings. Launch mode is set for 25% rear and 1% front, decaying to 1% all around.

It's a hair underdamped for comfort, but it also settles quicker over rough roads vs stiffer settings. Almost no squat on acceleration now compared to the stock settings. Launch mode probably could be stiffer but I don't have many open and straight roads around to test.

Does anyone know how the controller figures out the final damper output number? Is it arithmetic in that it just adds the appropriate tables together? For example, when accelerating, does it add the GForce table + Accel table + Velocity table. Thanks!

341496
 
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#41 ·
Does anyone know how the controller figures out the final damper output number? Is it arithmetic in that it just adds the appropriate tables together? For example, when accelerating, does it add the GForce table + Accel table + Velocity table. Thanks!
I don't believe we use the velocity table since our cars are not using ride height sensors.

The Accel table is applied before the GForce table is referenced. There's no blending or arithmetic going on between tables as I understand it. Simply put, it will use the percentages in the Accel table for as long as it applies as defined by your Threshold settings. Then the system will reference the GForce tables.
 
#43 ·
I messaged Jeremy at DSC and asked about how to use the historical error codes (at the bottom of the "Codes & Configuration" output) to aid in diagnosing issues that I have been having. You can go into the Windows calculator app, set it for QWORD and Decimal, then input the value. Reading from right to left on the BIN line, you can see where the "1" was set during the event.

Example with 960 as the saved error (all 4 dampers open, lines 7-10, common if the car has been sitting for a while):
341768

The BIN line shows where the "1s" would have been.
 
#44 ·
Apologies upfront for the long post. Tuning this system gets a bit technical... TL;DR = I made a new "Touring" map below for long road trip comfort and had to do some math to figure out how to tune it.

I've been spending some time working on a Touring map for the suspension and I thought I'd share the map. My wife and I are currently planning to take our 3rd "Grand Tour" in the RS later this year and our route plan has crossed the 4,000 mi mark so far. A well sorted ride is going to be important, but with the Tractive setup we are already miles ahead of our first two 3,300+ mi trips on the OEM system.

As I've been making tweaks to the DSC 3/16/20 map I've had trouble keeping things straight because the shocks have a working range of 1,900mA to 500mA, but the calibration table uses two different ranges front and rear of 1,650mA to 600mA and 1,500mA and 400mA, respectively. There is an offset built into the calibration menu which is a bit tough for my limited brain to keep track of. For example, when the supplied map says each corner is set at 25% stiffness in reality the fronts are getting 1,388mA and the rears are getting 1,225mA.

I'm sure DSC has their reasoning for doing this. It makes it very easy to scale the whole map rather than changing individual numbers, for example, but I wanted to keep track of absolutes as I worked on my map to keep things clearer and to better visualize how much of the shock's capability I am using.

So, I transformed the DSC 3/16/20 map to use the full shock calibration range of 1,900mA to 500mA.

From there I then softened up the "core" of the map by using 80% of the original values and feathering that out to 100% at the edges of the map. I also dialed back the soft inside shock settings that I understand were there originally to keep the car from being upset by curbing on the track. I have no plans on hitting curbing Normal mode and I didn't like how soft it made one of the front shocks under hard braking. On the street if I need to hit the brakes hard to avoid something I didn't want one side going so soft, so I dialed that back a bit as well for predictability.

Here is the Touring map I'm running now as it currently stands. Note that this has been re-scaled to the full shock range.
341927


I've also included a version of it that sends the exact same mA's to the shocks but uses the DSC calibration with the F/R offset. In other words, both the map above and below are sending the same mA signal to the LF shock at 0G condition even though one shows 29% and one shows 15%.
341928


Curious what you think of this approach and if it's a valid way to go about the tuning process. I've driven on this new map and really like it. It's quite soft when driving calmly, but stiffens up quickly if I toss it round a corner.
 
#45 ·
For comparison against my map (first one above) here is the as-shipped DSC 3/16/20 map re-scaled to the full 1,900 - 500mA range and keeping the F/R offset they had included.

You can see where I smoothed out some of inside wheel softness under braking, circled in green. There were also a couple areas that looked a little weird to me that I circled in blue.
341930
 
#46 ·
@Northish, I think that is a very thoughtful way to approach tuning the normal map and it sounds like it's already been an improvement for you. The only thing I would add is that you could also address some of the comfort control by adjusting the "G Comfort Parameters". Regardless of what the GForce map is, the system will use the "G Comfort Parameters" up to the "G Rate Max".

As far as DSC's approach to some of the mappings, it's clear they have a good understanding of the effects of damper induced weight transfer. They use these settings to induce oversteer throughout the maps, most evidently on the Track map. You cited an example of this in the way they configured their rear shock calibration. By shortening the range and increasing the ramp of the rears, they are increasing the load transfer across the rear and inducing oversteer, just as a large rear bar would.

If you have a good understanding of this, the flexibility in the setup is that much more powerful. I've tuned the GForce map according to how I want the car to behave, full brake, corner entry, slaloms, corner exit, and full accel. It's amazing to feel the effects of an active suspension. It brings truth to this quote:

A truly optimum damper setup is only possible with highly developed active dampers.
 
#49 ·
@Northish The only thing I would add is that you could also address some of the comfort control by adjusting the "G Comfort Parameters". Regardless of what the GForce map is, the system will use the "G Comfort Parameters" up to the "G Rate Max".
Thank you for reminding me to adjust the G Comfort Parameters. I actually had a question on terminology in those settings. In the help dialogue they make reference to, "the Default Rate (Lng Rate)." I understand that they are referencing the base default shock setting, but what does "Lng" mean? I've seen it a coupe times in the program.

Regarding your braking concern, don't forget that when you get on the brakes then the Braking table takes over for however long you have set in the Decay.
This is a good point to remember. I suppose to reach those higher G braking situations the controller would actually be referencing the Brake table since you may trip the brake pressure conditions, so you should be receiving equal damping so long as you set it that way in the Brake table.

I guess along those lines, why even have the inside wheel's damper soften in the standard map at high G's? Seems like the Brake table would be in charge because surely to initiate, say, 0.8G of deceleration with a mild turn (as circled below) you'd be hard on the brakes running off the Brake table. Am I thinking about this correctly, or overthinking?
341974


The amount of customize-ability is great. For the first time I think it could be useful to have a G meter in the car to aid with tuning.
 
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