Joined
·
272 Posts
That fortune controller looks similar to what TEIN had back in the day
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
DSC/Tractive Programming
141 - 160 of 170 Posts
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
I don't use my car for track (partially cuz I have no idea how to get to one in upstate New York), but for a DD Tractive+DSC is just fantastic. My SO actually fell asleep in the passenger seat on the most recent road trip on "normal" setting - something that never happened before. Normal and Sport are dramatically distinct now with the latter feeling close to the old Sport, but way more forgiving on imperfections. Normal in standard configuration is actually a bit too floaty for day-to-day or spirited driving imo, but it's fine for long highway trips where I don't necessarily care about handling either, so it's a good compromise mode. Sport is in a perfect spot. I was doing some fun driving through mountainous roads with a buddy, and he commented how much more planted the vehicle felt compared to his Porsche 944. He specifically pointed out a spot where a big curve had a dip in it, which had a propensity for kicking his back tires out. The Tractive/DSC setup went over that like nothing happened without losing any grip or handling. There's also far less "thud" noise from bumps and joints like you get with highway travel. Some joints would feel like I just drove over a brick before with an accompanying rattling thud sound. No longer the case! POGO is not a thing anymore at all. The floaty normal mode can get a bit bouncy on repeated imperfections, though not like in the old pogo way, more just feeling the road bumps, but sport does not at all as it stiffens much quicker between oscillations.
For reference, I had the original revision of the stock shocks (early 2016 MY). I don't know what it's like coming from a later rev.
For reference, I had the original revision of the stock shocks (early 2016 MY). I don't know what it's like coming from a later rev.
Joined
·
908 Posts
Yes as per Braaps description above; as a daily driver they are awesome put on a set of H&R or Eibach springs and their even better.
The later car dampers are more of the same but just much better.
Stay with the OEM dampers as the KWDDC are just basically a coil over of the factory damper as both have the same valving.
DSC support
1/ OEM
2/ Tractive
3/ KW DDC
The later car dampers are more of the same but just much better.
Stay with the OEM dampers as the KWDDC are just basically a coil over of the factory damper as both have the same valving.
DSC support
1/ OEM
2/ Tractive
3/ KW DDC
Joined
·
908 Posts
From Tractive regards their controller
Thank you for reaching out to us.
I’m sorry to hear your having issues with your DSC controller.
Have you reached out to them already? I’m sure they offer some sort of solution for you as it’s not common that these fail.
We as TracTive only offer a standalone solution, this completely ditches the original controls and work thru our touchscreen.
In my opinion, this is not a solution for the Focus with the onboard controls and all the sensors the car uses. Switching to a standalone system requires a lot of work and requires a cancellation kit for the original system. Next to that, the standalone system only works with the TracTive dampers.
Thank you for reaching out to us.
I’m sorry to hear your having issues with your DSC controller.
Have you reached out to them already? I’m sure they offer some sort of solution for you as it’s not common that these fail.
We as TracTive only offer a standalone solution, this completely ditches the original controls and work thru our touchscreen.
In my opinion, this is not a solution for the Focus with the onboard controls and all the sensors the car uses. Switching to a standalone system requires a lot of work and requires a cancellation kit for the original system. Next to that, the standalone system only works with the TracTive dampers.
Joined
·
2,069 Posts
So I have the dreaded "LR Open" error again. The car has been doing it's normal "works most of the time, then some times, then goes stiff partway through a drive, now full stiff" routine. This is time #3 or 4.
Did some troubleshooting of the issue. The LR open error would show always, so I disconnected the RR to troubleshoot. Sometimes it would show open, sometimes not.
Long story short, I checked all the corners with a voltmeter. The LF connector showed open with the voltmeter where it meets the stock wiring harness. I think I found the problem.
I've been treating LR Open as an "idiot light" that something is electrically wrong, not necessarily in the LR, and it seems to have proven correct this time around. I'll be writing DSC and asking for the upgraded intermediate wiring for the fronts.
Did some troubleshooting of the issue. The LR open error would show always, so I disconnected the RR to troubleshoot. Sometimes it would show open, sometimes not.
Long story short, I checked all the corners with a voltmeter. The LF connector showed open with the voltmeter where it meets the stock wiring harness. I think I found the problem.
I've been treating LR Open as an "idiot light" that something is electrically wrong, not necessarily in the LR, and it seems to have proven correct this time around. I'll be writing DSC and asking for the upgraded intermediate wiring for the fronts.
Joined
·
549 Posts
Crazy!
Have you tried hardwiring the connections? Those connectors were problematic . . .
I'm mostly trouble free - with just a few 'drive mode unavailable' errors when selecting from the stalk
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
Yes, the connectors leave a lot to be desired. I've found it really easy for the connectors to slide apart, so each one of my connectors is taped together with wire harness cloth tape. I've fortunately not had to deal with any open circuit issues.
Joined
·
908 Posts
I had the new black / yellow connectors and was charged for the 8 not the insignificant sum of £160 (UK) for the ends and new wire.
So be prepared they may wish to drop you an invoice.
Drive mode errors I’ve put down to the exhaust valve sticking closed occasionally. As even when full stiff happens which is currently all the time the drive modes are still available.
So be prepared they may wish to drop you an invoice.
Drive mode errors I’ve put down to the exhaust valve sticking closed occasionally. As even when full stiff happens which is currently all the time the drive modes are still available.
Joined
·
39 Posts
Short question: if the settings in the DSC Controller between Sport and Track are the same, is it in real the same?
Or does the switch of the Focus to track ad something to the values?
So - the base calibration for stock dampers has the same settings in sport and track?
Or does the switch of the Focus to track ad something to the values?
So - the base calibration for stock dampers has the same settings in sport and track?
Joined
·
1,047 Posts
Yes, the dampers follow the configurations set up in the DSC Controller modes. If two are the same, the damper behavior would not change between them, it's operating under the direction of the configuration.
No, there is no real time editing or additional ability to edit the values aside from the DSC program.
It's been a while since I've looked and I don't have a copy in front of me but I don't remember this as the case. Have you downloaded the latest copy from their website to make sure you are looking at an official release from DSC?
Joined
·
2,069 Posts
I called DSC yesterday. They had a car in last week with the full stiff issue. Repinning the original intermittent cable worked for only a few days. Replacing the cable was the permanent fix. Now they're out of cables, saying that they're waiting for the new sole vendor to get them supplies.
@White-RS2 I'm expecting to have to pay for cables. 160 GBP is really steep for some copper and connectors.
@White-RS2 I'm expecting to have to pay for cables. 160 GBP is really steep for some copper and connectors.
2017 NB Focus RS; RS2, Sunroof, FP exhaust, Mountune IC, DSC Sport suspension, Livernois tune.
Joined
·
133 Posts
That was actually my car..
...well, I hope the replacement cable is a permanent fix. Took three trips to the shop to get it to this point. They re-pinned the left rear, and replaced both fronts.
Joined
·
39 Posts
ok, thanks, just want to get shure, that it's like this.
because I have had a "Eibach"-Version, and looked in that, sport mode was up to 1500mA and tracke only 1000 oer 1200...
so I tink, I'll do my own caliration, Base, Sport, Track and take the Track to the "hardest" level....
Joined
·
192 Posts
Eibach version of the Tractive shocks? Which version did you buy? the TRAC-FO-Axx03 ??
Joined
·
39 Posts
no - sorry, only eibach springs, with stock dampers.
A guy in my neighborhood had a version (done by DSC?) specialley for the Eibach Springs...
Joined
·
549 Posts
DSC will have a good effect of softening the dampers in low gForce conditions
Negligible in any other situation - the stock dampers can't switch fast enough
Joined
·
2,069 Posts
Hey all. An update and a question for us Tractive owners. After taping the plug on the front-left damper, no full stiff events for a few months now. Yay!
Now the question. How are you guys managing front wheel hop on launches? Especially when the steering wheel is turned? I have the "launch" tab set pretty soft, but I thought that was just for when you "stab the throttle" and set launch mode. Any insight is appreciated, thanks!
Now the question. How are you guys managing front wheel hop on launches? Especially when the steering wheel is turned? I have the "launch" tab set pretty soft, but I thought that was just for when you "stab the throttle" and set launch mode. Any insight is appreciated, thanks!
Joined
·
238 Posts
Hey there, I don't usually do full noise launches except on dirt, which is all a bit chaotic anyway so hard to know if it is doing much hopping or not. Haven't done a tarmac motorkhana in it... actually I guess I didn't notice much at the tarmac rally sprint either, thinking about the first corner I guess.
Just wondering why you want to launch with steering lock on? I've always tried to straighten the car in the garage to point where I want to go to minimise lock, I'd be worried about the universal joints. About the only other thing we used to do on rally starts is try to avoid the chopped up dusty stuff on the start line where there is little traction. Sometimes we used to start behind th start line a bit to get a clean grippy start and pass over the bull dust faster, though never measured it to see if this helped.
Just wondering why you want to launch with steering lock on? I've always tried to straighten the car in the garage to point where I want to go to minimise lock, I'd be worried about the universal joints. About the only other thing we used to do on rally starts is try to avoid the chopped up dusty stuff on the start line where there is little traction. Sometimes we used to start behind th start line a bit to get a clean grippy start and pass over the bull dust faster, though never measured it to see if this helped.
That’s a whole new level of trial and error 😂
I don’t have active suspensions but the first (and probably only) thing that comes to my mind would be to stiffen as the vehicle speed increases. The logic is the energy increases with the speed so a given bump requires more high-shaft-speed compression damping when arriving on it faster to avoid hitting the bump stops.
Everything else should stay pretty much the same except maybe a very slight increase in rebound damping, also as a function of vehicle speed, to reduce vertical movements a bit which helps with driver confidence at high speed but also reduces grip/traction so it’s a double-edge sword.
What you absolutely certainly don’t want is stiffen while cornering.
You have to observe the tire and the suspension spring act as series springs: there is one very stiff spring called the tire, and another spring called the suspension spring, and they are on top of each other’s.
The energy goes to the tire which transmits it to the suspension spring.
If you do anything to stiffen the suspension, you are not changing physics: all you do is to transfer more energy to the tire. Imagine the spring is fully rigid (so a bar, not a spring) then 100% of the bump energy is handled by the tire.
The problem with that is the tire is not damped. It’s like an elastic shock, almost all the energy is restituted intact. This is not what you want. You want the energy to be dissipated (turned into heat) by the damper and for that to happen the damper has to move, and to move the spring + hydraulic damping must be softer than the tire. There is nothing to argue here. Make sure the tire is the stiffer spring always, and by a big margin.
If the stiffnesses are equal, so the tire and the spring compresses equally, you are only damping half of the energy, the half that is accumulated in the spring.
The other half (stored in the flexed tire) is going to be restituted and that will make the wheel bounce and reduce the normal force, thus the grip. You don’t want to reduce grip during corners.
There is more to it but in general it’s easy to get lost in settings with adjustable suspensions. The trap is to optimize by feel and for a particular corner. Chances are that the whole car is way off sooner than you think, even for that corner.
Just remember that when you stiffen, all you do is put more load on the tire. They will heat up more, the rubber will melt/overheat (at the contact point under load) and the wear pattern will be ugly. “More camber” is the usual response but the solution is less spring / less hydraulics and to let the energy reach and be absorbed by the damper!
Also, don’t get confused by weight transfer: the suspension stiffness has no effect on it. The only ways to reduce weight transfer are to lower the center of mass, or widen the track, or both, which is what race cars do: a physical modification of the geometric relationship between the center of mass and the contact points with the road. Touring cars and F1 don’t roll much but it’s because their center of mass is below the wheel’s axis.
One final thought is you need to consider the car as the reference frame. The car is not really moving, due to its mass relative to the unsprung masses. Only consider a tiny instant of time when the car drives on a tiny dip, sa a couple of cm or one inch. Due to inertia, the car stands still in the air and the springs pushes the wheels against the ground. The more rebound damping the less the springs can push, the less traction as the load on the tires lessens. On cars with proper suspension (most road cars) the wheels just go down the dip and the car practically does not move vertically. With too much rebound damping (literally all tweaked Subarus) the dampers don’t extend and the whole car falls into the dip. Watch for it next time you see one. For bumps it’s the same thing, only in reverse: normal suspensions the wheels move up, and the chassis stay more or less immobile vertically. Too much spring or too much hydraulics and the energy is split between the tire and the chassis. The whole car moves up. Of course this upward movement eventually unloads the tires, and when that happens the traction is lost for an long time as those suspensions invariably have too much rebound damping too.
Keep in mind that the only role of the suspension is to keep the tires on the ground with an as steady as possible load. During corners the dampers must be loaded and must continue to damp the small variations that occurs. If the dampers are too stiff the tires do the work, and all tires know to do in the vertical axis is bounce.
I don’t have active suspensions but the first (and probably only) thing that comes to my mind would be to stiffen as the vehicle speed increases. The logic is the energy increases with the speed so a given bump requires more high-shaft-speed compression damping when arriving on it faster to avoid hitting the bump stops.
Everything else should stay pretty much the same except maybe a very slight increase in rebound damping, also as a function of vehicle speed, to reduce vertical movements a bit which helps with driver confidence at high speed but also reduces grip/traction so it’s a double-edge sword.
What you absolutely certainly don’t want is stiffen while cornering.
You have to observe the tire and the suspension spring act as series springs: there is one very stiff spring called the tire, and another spring called the suspension spring, and they are on top of each other’s.
The energy goes to the tire which transmits it to the suspension spring.
If you do anything to stiffen the suspension, you are not changing physics: all you do is to transfer more energy to the tire. Imagine the spring is fully rigid (so a bar, not a spring) then 100% of the bump energy is handled by the tire.
The problem with that is the tire is not damped. It’s like an elastic shock, almost all the energy is restituted intact. This is not what you want. You want the energy to be dissipated (turned into heat) by the damper and for that to happen the damper has to move, and to move the spring + hydraulic damping must be softer than the tire. There is nothing to argue here. Make sure the tire is the stiffer spring always, and by a big margin.
If the stiffnesses are equal, so the tire and the spring compresses equally, you are only damping half of the energy, the half that is accumulated in the spring.
The other half (stored in the flexed tire) is going to be restituted and that will make the wheel bounce and reduce the normal force, thus the grip. You don’t want to reduce grip during corners.
There is more to it but in general it’s easy to get lost in settings with adjustable suspensions. The trap is to optimize by feel and for a particular corner. Chances are that the whole car is way off sooner than you think, even for that corner.
Just remember that when you stiffen, all you do is put more load on the tire. They will heat up more, the rubber will melt/overheat (at the contact point under load) and the wear pattern will be ugly. “More camber” is the usual response but the solution is less spring / less hydraulics and to let the energy reach and be absorbed by the damper!
Also, don’t get confused by weight transfer: the suspension stiffness has no effect on it. The only ways to reduce weight transfer are to lower the center of mass, or widen the track, or both, which is what race cars do: a physical modification of the geometric relationship between the center of mass and the contact points with the road. Touring cars and F1 don’t roll much but it’s because their center of mass is below the wheel’s axis.
One final thought is you need to consider the car as the reference frame. The car is not really moving, due to its mass relative to the unsprung masses. Only consider a tiny instant of time when the car drives on a tiny dip, sa a couple of cm or one inch. Due to inertia, the car stands still in the air and the springs pushes the wheels against the ground. The more rebound damping the less the springs can push, the less traction as the load on the tires lessens. On cars with proper suspension (most road cars) the wheels just go down the dip and the car practically does not move vertically. With too much rebound damping (literally all tweaked Subarus) the dampers don’t extend and the whole car falls into the dip. Watch for it next time you see one. For bumps it’s the same thing, only in reverse: normal suspensions the wheels move up, and the chassis stay more or less immobile vertically. Too much spring or too much hydraulics and the energy is split between the tire and the chassis. The whole car moves up. Of course this upward movement eventually unloads the tires, and when that happens the traction is lost for an long time as those suspensions invariably have too much rebound damping too.
Keep in mind that the only role of the suspension is to keep the tires on the ground with an as steady as possible load. During corners the dampers must be loaded and must continue to damp the small variations that occurs. If the dampers are too stiff the tires do the work, and all tires know to do in the vertical axis is bounce.
141 - 160 of 170 Posts
