Ford Focus RS Forum banner
41 - 60 of 81 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #41 · (Edited)
Question: Since your in the middle of a build, you could probably tell me is the crankshaft pulley bolt loosen clock wise or counter- clockwise? I'm wanting to pull the front cover and having trouble removing the bolt on the front pulley.
It’s a right thread, loosen counterclockwise. It might be very tight. 1st gear and handbrake or someone pushing the brake pedal and a long breaker bar should do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #42 ·
How did you install the rear main seal? Use any Lube?

Ciao
I put some #3 grease on the crank. Then I have the white plastic of tool that came pre-installed with an earlier rear seal. I put it on the new seal (that came without any tool) with a bit of #3, my new favorite lube. The tool bends the lip in the position it will be on the crankshaft and increases the diameter slightly.

Then, after applying some RTV on the bottom edge and up the sides a bit, and on the lip on the oil pan for good measure, you just present the seal and push forward at once. The tool mates with the crank and comes off as you push on the seal. The lip pointing forward just lands where it should.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
587 Posts
Sorry, redundant post…
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,710 Posts
I put some #3 grease on the crank. Then I have the white plastic of tool that came pre-installed with an earlier rear seal. I put it on the new seal (that came without any tool) with a bit of #3, my new favorite lube. The tool bends the lip in the position it will be on the crankshaft and increases the diameter slightly.

Then, after applying some RTV on the bottom edge and up the sides a bit, and on the lip on the oil pan for good measure, you just present the seal and push forward at once. The tool mates with the crank and comes off as you push on the seal. The lip pointing forward just lands where it should.
It might be worth re doing the rear seal then before you install the engine. The RS engine uses a Fluorosilicone rear seal that requires dry instillation or it will leak oil. It's important to NOT use any lube on them. They work by depositing a layer of the seal material on the journal in the first rotations of the dry crank to affect a seal. If you look in the RS shop manual you will note it doesn't mention lubricating the seal before instillation. You can usually tell the fluro seals by the fact that they generally come with an instillation sleeve so the seal doesn't roll when installed dry. Feel free to research and check my information.

Ciao
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
943 Posts
It might be worth re doing the rear seal then before you install the engine. The RS engine uses a Fluorosilicone rear seal that requires dry instillation or it will leak oil. It's important to NOT use any lube on them. They work by depositing a layer of the seal material on the journal in the first rotations of the dry crank to affect a seal. If you look in the RS shop manual you will note it doesn't mention lubricating the seal before instillation. You can usually tell the fluro seals by the fact that they generally come with an instillation sleeve so the seal doesn't roll when installed dry. Feel free to research and check my information.

Ciao
I’ve installed mine dry. Cleaned the crank with brake cleaner, lint free cloth, and let dry for a few minutes. No leaks 🤞. I don’t have any experience with lube on the crank.

I was a little surprised to see @axelr installed the oil pan before the rear main seal. It makes it a little harder to get the seal on straight and seal the surfaces between the sides of the seal and the oil pan. But, as long as you add the extra sealant on the sides it works fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #46 · (Edited)
@lucky phil: Interesting. I guess we’ll see then.

The previous seal was installed with a light coat of Sachs spline grease on the crank’s contact surface and it did not leak a drop of oil in two years.

The instructions that come with the seal do not mention lube, but I don’t recall reading anything warning against using some. If Ford went through the hassles of printing special instructions with one seal (literally the only of dozens of seals to come with specially printed instruction) I hope they would not have missed the opportunity to add a note against using lubricant (and thoroughly degrease instead) during installation? Maybe I missed it, I’ll check it again.

As far as alignment, the lower surface mates to the sump over 160mm at least. There is an opportunity for a few arc-seconds of angular misalignment that don’t worry me too much. The seal is self-centering around the crankshaft axis, so again I’m not too worried about radial alignment. The Ford instructions say to come at an angle and seat the seal against the sump first, then straighten it and push it into place. They don’t say to remove the sump.

The jury is still out regarding the effect of the lubricant I put, then. The #3 lube I used this time is far more oil-soluble than the Sachs high-pressure spline grease I used last time.

I also lubed the front seal if you want to know. I think there is always a small risk of scratching the seal’s surface at a microscopic scale with the freshly rectified dry steel when sliding into place against the seal at 90° from the surface finish. I always use the thinnest layer of high-pressure lube so the seal (or shaft) glides into place without metal contact and the lip lands intact where they should be, then cuts through the lube on the first rotation(s).

Time will tell. Thanks for the heads up though: that’s one more thing to look out for on that engine and the list of open questions is already quite long 🥵
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
943 Posts
Interesting. I guess we’ll see then.

The previous seal was installed with a light coat of Sache spline grease on the crank’s contact surface and it did not leak a drop of oil in two years.

The instructions that come with the seal do not mention lube, but I don’t recall reading anything warning against using some. If Ford went through the hassles of printing special instructions with one seal (literally the only of dozens of seals to come with specially printed instruction) I hope they would not have missed the opportunity to add a note against using lubricant during installation? Maybe I missed it, I’ll check it again.

As far as alignment, the lower surface mates to the sump over 160mm at least. There is an opportunity for a few arc-seconds of angular misalignment that don’t worry me too much. The seal is self-centering around the crankshaft axis, so again I’m not too worried about radial alignment. The Ford instructions say to come at an angle and seat the seal against the sump first, then straighten it and push it into place. They don’t say to remove the sump.

The jury is still out regarding the effect of the lubricant I put, then. The #3 lube I used this time is far more oil-soluble than the Sache high-pressure spline grease I used last time.

I also lubed the front seal if you want to know. I think there is always a small risk of scratching the seal’s surface at a microscopic scale with the freshly rectified dry steel when sliding into place against the seal at 90° from the surface finish. I always use the thinnest layer of high-pressure lube so the seal (or shaft) glides into place without touching the metal and the lip lands intact where they should be, then cuts through the lube on the first rotations.

Time will tell. Thanks for the heads up though: that’s one more thing to look out for on that engine and the list of open questions is already quite long 🥵
🤞 don’t miss the TA-30 on each side of the block as well as along the oil pan. It’s in the manual, but can get overlooked. Ford calls for the tilt method on seal replacement. In the assembly instructions they show installing the seal before the oil pan. Both ways work as long as the parts are clean. When I installed my new synchros and replaced my clutch I installed a new RMS using the tilt method.

Did you use TA-30 or TA-16 on the cam end caps?

Great thread! Keep up the good work!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
reading your build with interest axelr. was looking at the basic drop in ford performance camshafts M-6250-23EBH but the local fords parts department has no listing for this part.
they've only found :
BB5Z-6250-B intake
EJ7Z 6250 A exhaust
? if these are the stock cams

tasca doesnt sell them anymore , and fordpartsgiant.com dont list them

anyone other sellers ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #49 ·
🤞 don’t miss the TA-30 on each side of the block as well as along the oil pan. It’s in the manual, but can get overlooked. Ford calls for the tilt method on seal replacement. In the assembly instructions they show installing the seal before the oil pan. Both ways work as long as the parts are clean. When I installed my new synchros and replaced my clutch I installed a new RMS using the tilt method.

Did you use TA-30 or TA-16 on the cam end caps?

Great thread! Keep up the good work!
I used Permatex Ultra Synthetic all around, front cover, oil sump, rear seal bottom and 1 inch up each side + sump side, head gasket (for the two new spots) and the cam cover’s 6 spots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #50 ·
reading your build with interest axelr. was looking at the basic drop in ford performance camshafts M-6250-23EBH but the local fords parts department has no listing for this part.
they've only found :
BB5Z-6250-B intake
EJ7Z 6250 A exhaust
? if these are the stock cams

tasca doesnt sell them anymore , and fordpartsgiant.com dont list them

anyone other sellers ?
I ordered mine directly from Ford. Note they say « each » but they really mean « each set » - the $215 price of for a set of two camshafts. They also say Mustang but I assure you they directly fit the RS too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Speaking of rear seal, these are pictures of a former engine that I bought assembled as a built long block. It failed because all four oil jets got fractured due to a clearance issue with aftermarket pistons. The rear seal was leaking too.
Automotive tire Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Automotive parking light Automotive design

Jeans Automotive lighting Automotive tire Helmet Rim

Motor vehicle Automotive tire Bumper Vehicle Automotive lighting

Automotive tire Bicycle part Bicycle chain Rim Helmet

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Automotive lighting Motor vehicle

Automotive tire White Automotive lighting Light Motor vehicle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,710 Posts
Yes some engine builders won't even fit the rear main seal to full long block builds due to come backs for leaking. Probably because they don't know it's supposed to be installed dry. It's the details that count and the moving target of technology advancements.

Ciao
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Yes some engine builders won't even fit the rear main seal to full long block builds due to come backs for leaking. Probably because they don't know it's supposed to be installed dry. It's the details that count and the moving target of technology advancements.

Ciao
This one was leaking mainly at the block interface.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #54 · (Edited)
More about rear seals: the one I just installed is substantially different than the two previous ones I’ve seen. First the metal part is gray not bronze. Second it does not have the fabric outer part, which was replaced by a black o-ring. The new seal is thus a double seal. The instructions are de-facto the latest and greatest as they came with the seal I ordered from Ford a week ago. The p/n is 1S7G-6K318-BA and the previous variant ended in AF, presumably version A revision F and mine is version B.

I unfortunately didn’t take a picture and it’s difficult to see anything now because there is no space behind the flywheel, but there is no fabric for sure. Below are the instructions and a picture of the tool.
Door Automotive tire Fixture Wood Tints and shades
Product Font Handwriting Material property Parallel

Automotive tire Wood Auto part Circle Metal


An old seal from my scrap parts bin. The fabric part is clearly visible. So yes things evolve.
Tire Automotive tire Tread Synthetic rubber Bicycle part
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,710 Posts
That "fabric" part in your seal image is actually "felt" and shields the seal from most of the oil fling happening in the area. I'm old enough to remember when rear main seals were Graphite impregnated "rope". It's telling the instructions mention nothing about lubricating the seal ot crank journal. Pity they don't warn people NOT to do it which is the common practice.
Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #56 · (Edited)
That "fabric" part in your seal image is actually "felt" and shields the seal from most of the oil fling happening in the area. I'm old enough to remember when rear main seals were Graphite impregnated "rope". It's telling the instructions mention nothing about lubricating the seal ot crank journal. Pity they don't warn people NOT to do it which is the common practice.
Phil
The fabric is on the outside, facing the flywheel. I’m not sure what it protects against. Maybe from abrasive particles from the clutch? There must be a lot of wind in the bellhousing with the flywheel and clutch assembly rotating at engine speed. Anyway this appears to be history now, the currently shipping seals have a rubber seal instead.

As you see the notice is from 2019, much newer than our engines. The seal has been revised.

Besides that I’ve spent a few minutes searching for this and it appears that lube is a big no-no for PTFE seals, but many recommend engine oil or some other lubricant for Viton and other members of the FKM family. FVMQ (fluorosilicone) are described as wearing quickly in dynamic applications, be colored blue, and easy to tear during installation (so they would be a poor choice for a main seal running at 7000rpm) - but I have yet to find one source saying they must be installed dry.

I’ll leave it there.

If Ford seal had to be critically installed dry, they would say it on the notice coming with the seal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,710 Posts
The fabric is on the outside, facing the flywheel. I’m not sure what it protects against. Maybe from abrasive particles from the clutch? There must be a lot of wind in the bellhousing with the flywheel and clutch assembly rotating at engine speed. Anyway this appears to be history now, the currently shipping seals have a rubber seal instead.

As you see the notice is from 2019, much newer than our engines. The seal has been revised.

Besides that I’ve spent a few minutes searching for this and it appears that lube is a big no-no for PTFE seals, but many recommend engine oil or some other lubricant for Viton and other members of the FKM family. FVMQ (fluorosilicone) are described as wearing quickly in dynamic applications, be colored blue, and easy to tear during installation (so they would be a poor choice for a main seal running at 7000rpm) - but I have yet to find one source saying they must be installed dry.

I’ll leave it there.

If Ford seal had to be critically installed dry, they would say it on the notice coming with the seal.
Sorry I researched this a few years ago when I read about rear main seal failures and my memory has failed me on the material. The material I meant is PTFE which I believe the RS engine uses. Not trying to win points here just add to the knowledge base.


Phil
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
760 Posts
Love reading through this thread Axel; looking forward to the next update. Appreciate you taking the time to document things here, and especially not using YouTube to do so. This is what I love about forums... pictures, detail, discussion. I couldn't be bothered to watch any video covering the same.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #59 · (Edited)
One tedious aspect - not difficult but time consuming - is to move all accessories and ancillaries from one engine to the next. One way is to just unbolt and rebolt as you go, another is to recondition the stuff, which means clean, decrease, remove old sealant, threadlocker, anti seize from every nuts and bolts and get everything ready for re-installation.

I thank my former self for having done that before and I know my future self will thank me for having done it again.

While inspecting parts you may also decide to replace them, or not. My PTU seals weren’t leaking a single drop and the old grease I used last time was still there.

I decided to clean them well and replace the grease. I have a new theory about oil seals: always use a thick grease both on the seal and on the shaft (or whatever gets sealed) - this way the seal does not get damaged during installation and they may last longer.

Automotive tire Camera lens Drinkware Fluid Mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera
Musical instrument Automotive tire Idiophone Bell Gas


After:
Tire Automotive tire Camera lens Lens Font


If you feel it with your nail, along the shaft’s axis, that rectified surface is not smooth. I can see how a fragile fluoride-rubber lip can get scratched when the shaft is inserted dry 😉 I put a dab of Sachs spline grease (p/n 4200080050) and spread it around with a finger to form a thin coat and I also coat the seal itself. In fact, some of the new seals come pre-greased from Ford. I just add a little more and spread it around evenly.
Automotive parking light Automotive lighting Automotive tire Hood Motor vehicle

Automotive tire Wheel Tire Bumper Rim


I clean the bolts then apply a fresh coat of Loctite LB 8023 marine grade anti-seize, as well as a hint of #3 lube under the bolt’s heads. You may get more accurate torque across a set of bolts this way - according to the ARP cult - and if anything else, that will limit the amount of humidity getting in over time:
Font Auto part Gas Metal Wood

Fluid Liquid Plastic bottle Gas Drink


I also box everything by subject or region together with the bolts and everything, ready to put back on the engine:
Motor vehicle Machine Auto part Engineering Metal


Same treatment (but different anti-seize) for the turbo output flange’s studs and bolts. Here the #3 lube is only there to facilitate installation: it will burn out, but that’s not a problem as you are supposed to use new oval nuts and new studs each time, and at that particular location it is advantageous that the studs come off, not just the nut, when dismantling: this way your downpipe is free and there is zero effort to pull it away. Loctite LB 8008 copper anti-seize is your friend for hot iron/steel places that rust no matter what.
Green Yellow Font Thread Magenta

Tin Product Aluminum can Beverage can Fluid
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
608 Posts
Discussion Starter · #60 · (Edited)
Today (Wednesday) was downpipe day. I’m also stuck because a thread gave up in the clutch/gearbox bellhousing last night when I decoupled it from the old engine.

One of the three reverse-bolts was the wrong one, 45mm in length instead of 60mm. The top two should be 60mm bolts. That’s one of the three bolts that make you wonder what they were thinking when they designed the engine-gearbox coupling. With 15mm of length missing, only about 5-6mm were actually biting.

The thread came out when I removed the bolt. The curious thing is I never had two 60mm bolts. It’s about the 3rd time I remove this gearbox and I never had a 60mm bolt left. Small mystery.

I ordered the correct bolt, a cool $14.50 from Ford, and a M10 thread repair kit, TIME-SERT like, not helicoil. I will be installing a M10x1.5 14mm-long steel insert. That should do it: the torque is 47Nm.

I’ve noticed the cat converter substrate was cracked on my stock downpipe. It was probably going to crack more so I bought a catted aftermarket downpipe to replace it.

The one that won was the one that was in stock and shipped on the same day with 2-day shipping that did not cost an arm: a CP-e ordered from CJ Pony. High-flow they say. They also claim 5% power increase potential. The new cat is much smaller with larger cells and a metallic substrate that has very thin walls so it’s apparently less obtrusive but the stock cat has a much larger, oval surface so I don’t know for sure. There are provisions for a 2nd lambda sensor before the cat, for those who want to use a standalone lambda monitor. The downpipe comes with a plug to block the extra port if not needed, but no washer for the plug so I added a copper one.

The downpipes is not a work of art but it’s bigger: about 73mm I.D. straight from the flange vs. 65mm for the stock one. It also feels robust and fits in the stock hanger rubbers, and it’s a bit lighter than stock, about 0.9kg or 2lb less, although I didn’t weight them. It’s a direct-fit, no mod required. They moved the O2 sensors bungs a bit but there is no clearance issue on the car.

It couples with a stock catback and the problem (not their fault though) is the coupling is only 63mm I.D. due to the way it works with the Ford collar. This means a 3” (73mm I.D) pipe reduces to 63mm just for the coupling, then returns to 3” - This is something that might be worth fixing one day, namely redo the downpipe-to-catback interface so it does not reduce the inside diameter by 10mm and the section surface (and flow) by a whopping 25% when coupling a 3” downpipe to a 3” catback.

I shielded the cat and the initial part of the downpipe the best I could with some leftovers insulation material I had, to reduce the heat released in the engine bay. Not museum-grade work but it’s a downpipe.

Note the stock downpipe has a gratuitous restriction held for about 10mm right after the flex section, before the hanger. Another small Easter egg from our friends at Ford 😋
Automotive exhaust Gas Nickel Plumbing fitting Plumbing

Yellow Grass Human leg Pattern Denim

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Automotive exhaust Automotive exterior Automotive design


I got the bolts and the repair kit in the morning. Ordered on Tuesday night, back on track on Thursday.
Toolbox Tool Gas Auto part Font
 
41 - 60 of 81 Posts
Top