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I admit that I still need more practice, but properly done, it allow to keep rev and position the car in tight turns.
AWD is new to me.
It was just to reply to @axelr , that with a minimum practice, it's managable and lot of fun.
It was just to encourage others to try.
* most of time my FoRS is just few seconds after 600bhp evos instead it's not really perfect.
I’m not trying to hijack the thread. Perhaps using your left foot on the brake to keep the rear planted is an option? Minimal sliding is gonna be fastest. I imagine with 12% more rear bias, you can get the rotation you’re looking for.


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I admit that I still need more practice, but properly done, it allow to keep rev and position the car in tight turns.
AWD is new to me.
It was just to reply to @axelr , that with a minimum practice, it's managable and lot of fun.
It was just to encourage others to try.
* most of time my FoRS is just few seconds after 600bhp evos instead it's not really perfect.
* Last video was training for drift, video of post #445 was what we call "slalom" here, it's a time race, but honestly, the 12% increase require to relearn to manage the car
 
Thanks for the detailed feedback - this is exactly what we need now to fine tune the strategies. There are few more to test in the latest VM.

I always felt the outer wheel bias was too much on the RS. I drive in track mode most of the time and I always wanted more overall rear torque but less outer wheel bias, so I started with your experimental +25 with vectoring off (T11) and here is what I found: the first impression was when backing of from my driveway and when making a sharp turn backwards the rear wheels scrubbed with some rear axle noise.
Yeah, we DO NOT have rear diff. RDU takes info from ABS (wheel speed) and steering wheel to emulate it. The thing is that wheel speed is ignored by the original algorithm if you are going slow and Steering Wheel info is removed in this tune. So you can get this "LDS lockup effect" when doing slow and sharp turns. Not desired but expected - this is an experimental tune.
If we find this one works for us in general I will fix this issue with an dynamic engagement of the SWVEC in low speeds.

Forward motion felt good, although on two occasions I definitely felt the front wheels loose traction which leads me to suspect the car was in FWD. I could repro the behavior described earlier on this thread where the car lost traction just after shifting to 2nd gear so maybe some internal threshold was exceeded and the RDU briefly disabled itself?
I assume this happened in T11 only, tried to reproduce on wet asphalt and got 4-wheels spin if I was aggressive with the clutch going into 2nd gear. Definitely something we could log and debug if we are able to reproduce with the laptop plugged in.

When driving near the limit, the very strong bias towards the outer wheel makes it too easy to lose rear grip and prevents to open the throttle soon and wide. What would be nice to try is less L/R bias, but not a fixed 50/50 which does not work well in tight corners. Since the bias is driven by the steering angle maybe you can divide the steering angle value by 2 or 4, so we still get some differentiation and outer wheel bias, but much less?
I got this feedback (less L/R bias) couple of times from other experienced drivers as well. I'm currently working on this and a fixed 2x1300Nm LC + 12% afterwards (aka Hank's mod).

My approach to the "drift stick" is to plug Carloop to have fun and unplug it afterwards but I can easily change the Carloop firmware to ignore HB signal in the Normal DM if there's a consensus around it. As for the speed limit... come on, we all know it was created to slide into the parking places ;)
 
Thanks for the detailed feedback - this is exactly what we need now to fine tune the strategies. There are few more to test in the latest VM.
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I assume this happened in T11 only, tried to reproduce on wet asphalt and got 4-wheels spin if I was aggressive with the clutch going into 2nd gear. Definitely something we could log and debug if we are able to reproduce with the laptop plugged in.



I got this feedback (less L/R bias) couple of times from other experienced drivers as well. I'm currently working on this and a fixed 2x1300Nm LC + 12% afterwards (aka Hank's mod).
Getting great feedback recently on this thread. Once I have a few days off I'll log some pulls for you and try to replicate the weird bias I was feeling in the wet. Beyond that, I cannot wait to try different tunes in the snow 🤤
As always, kacper is the man! Plz let us donate already.
 
I just tried T13. I personally feel the +25% gives a perfect balance on throttle, although my car is bone stock other than a filter. LC could definitely use more power in the rear as my fronts still want to light up, but it is a big improvement and launches much harder than normal. T13 didn't feel drifty at all to me but it also didn't have the brutal push it had before. This is how it should have been from the factory.

Maybe its the addict in me but I could take another 25%...
344495
 
Getting great feedback recently on this thread. Once I have a few days off I'll log some pulls for you and try to replicate the weird bias I was feeling in the wet. Beyond that, I cannot wait to try different tunes in the snow 🤤
As always, kacper is the man! Plz let us donate already.
Thanks for the detailed feedback - this is exactly what we need now to fine tune the strategies. There are few more to test in the latest VM.



Yeah, we DO NOT have rear diff. RDU takes info from ABS (wheel speed) and steering wheel to emulate it. The thing is that wheel speed is ignored by the original algorithm if you are going slow and Steering Wheel info is removed in this tune. So you can get this "LDS lockup effect" when doing slow and sharp turns. Not desired but expected - this is an experimental tune.
If we find this one works for us in general I will fix this issue with an dynamic engagement of the SWVEC in low speeds.



I assume this happened in T11 only, tried to reproduce on wet asphalt and got 4-wheels spin if I was aggressive with the clutch going into 2nd gear. Definitely something we could log and debug if we are able to reproduce with the laptop plugged in.



I got this feedback (less L/R bias) couple of times from other experienced drivers as well. I'm currently working on this and a fixed 2x1300Nm LC + 12% afterwards (aka Hank's mod).

My approach to the "drift stick" is to plug Carloop to have fun and unplug it afterwards but I can easily change the Carloop firmware to ignore HB signal in the Normal DM if there's a consensus around it. As for the speed limit... come on, we all know it was created to slide into the parking places ;)
Yes on T11 only. I drove a few more hours on T5 since I posted and the outer bias is definitely excessive for me in Track mode. I do my own mapping and I charge close to 1.9 bar from just after 3K up to about 5800 so this may have something to do with it :cool: Track+T5 feels almost like standard Drift mode but without the speed limit so definitely a little dangerous when the car wants to swap ends at 120.

I've "regressed" to Sport mode at some point, which commands less rear torque and the car felt very good, although it's difficult to tell if Sport+T5 has more rear torque than the stock Track mode, maybe a tad bit less but no weird feeling in S so all good for now. I think the key to further flexibility is to get control over the L/R bias. If you are just patching bytes at this stage perhaps the (steering_angle>>1) route is an easier first approximation.

If you have a good source for the RS CAN messages I can make and test the change for the handbrake activation and send you a pull request. I think even for legal reasons you want to limit it to the two "track-only" modes so if anything ever happens on the road you are implicitly covered bc Ford thought of that...

All I found so far as far as CAN doc is this, which is a good start but I wonder if someone has more info.
 
Yes on T11 only. I drove a few more hours on T5 since I posted and the outer bias is definitely excessive for me in Track mode. I do my own mapping and I charge close to 1.9 bar from just after 3K up to about 5800 so this may have something to do with it :cool: Track+T5 feels almost like standard Drift mode but without the speed limit so definitely a little dangerous when the car wants to swap ends at 120.

I've "regressed" to Sport mode at some point, which commands less rear torque and the car felt very good, although it's difficult to tell if Sport+T5 has more rear torque than the stock Track mode, maybe a tad bit less but no weird feeling in S so all good for now. I think the key to further flexibility is to get control over the L/R bias. If you are just patching bytes at this stage perhaps the (steering_angle>>1) route is an easier first approximation.


If you have a good source for the RS CAN messages I can make and test the change for the handbrake activation and send you a pull request. I think even for legal reasons you want to limit it to the two "track-only" modes so if anything ever happens on the road you are implicitly covered bc Ford thought of that...

All I found so far as far as CAN doc is this, which is a good start but I wonder if someone has more info.
Halving the SWVEC factor is what I'm aiming for now. The resulting bias impact seems to be non-linear so the factor should be a better target than the angle value itself.

Drive Mode is broadcasted in 0x420.
 
Yes on T11 only.
Was it like "kangaroo" effect or full FWD spin with revs hitting cut-off? It was raining earlier today so I tried to reproduce on a "stage 1" car with T11 flashed and all I could get was a little kangaroo effect (which is ok in this situation). Logs showed desired torque being requested... Then flashed back to stock and instead of a little kangaroo I got the classic RS FWD slide... Please remember that T11 is an experiment of disabling SWVEC for drag / fun, it was never intended for daily use.

Then I tried T14 (unlimitted +12%) + Track Mode + ESC OFF on wet asphalt, OMG this will give you perfect and fast power slides :)
 
Was it like "kangaroo" effect or full FWD spin with revs hitting cut-off? It was raining earlier today so I tried to reproduce on a "stage 1" car with T11 flashed and all I could get was a little kangaroo effect. Logs showed desired torque being requested... Then flashed back to stock and instead of a little kangaroo I got the classic RS FWD slide... Please remember that T11 is an experiment of disabling SWVEC for drag / fun, it was never intended for daily use.

Then I tried T14 (unlimitted +12%) + Track Mode + ESC OFF on wet asphalt, OMG this will give you perfect and fast power slides :)
Dunno about kangoroo, what would be needed is log the 4 wheel speeds. They are broadcast at 100Hz on 0x190. That plus the L/R clutch pressures should provide some clarity over what's going on. One possible theory is the added rear push unloaded the front more than usual, but that would still be surprising as this car has a magnificent (and soft) suspension with a lot of downward travel, and a plated LSD at the front. It hardly spins at all even on studs, so suddenly spinning on RE-71R on mildly bumpy dry tarmac came as a surprise. I'm going to stick to T5+Sport for a while and drive some more.
 
I am going to try a +25% variant. will stick with vectoring on. I presume this is still T13. Is there also a version with vectoring on, but no torque limit?

I was having a look under the car today and wow the driveshaft is small in places. I guess its not been an issue in the past even with high power cars, as the power to the rear has always been limited. I wonder how much torque the driveshaft can take?
 
Just in case anyone is sitting on the fence about this with their daily driver....

Remember the first time driving an RS and the OMG felling going around a bend, the car pivots, pushes you around the corner seeming to defy the laws of physics. You cant help but grin.
Well this mod will give you that same feeling the first time you drive with it, as it amazingly takes it even further.
 
T14 is +12%, vectoring on, no limit
T15 is +25%, vectoring on, no limit
Just to be sure, are all the calibrations (T-5, T-11, T-13, T-14, & T-15) included in this last 7zip file; 20200828_DaftWorks.7z?
 
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