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Are they out of the woods if this was just a temporary fix to get them past the 60k powertrain warranty period? Like if a large majority of these things grenaded at 80k, would they face any repercussions or would we be left holding the bag?
 

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Are they out of the woods if this was just a temporary fix to get them past the 60k powertrain warranty period? Like if a large majority of these things grenaded at 80k, would they face any repercussions or would we be left holding the bag?
If enough cars have an issue I believe they will be forced to issue another recall to correct whatever issue is causing the grenading, and I would think they would repair the broken engines.

That's just an assumption on my end. I believe NHTA would have to investigate.

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I'm giving Ford the benefit of the doubt. I could see how someone ordered EBM 2.3 gaskets and was unaware that the RS 2.3 was a wholly different and special motor.
 

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I'm giving Ford the benefit of the doubt. I could see how someone ordered EBM 2.3 gaskets and was unaware that the RS 2.3 was a wholly different and special motor.
As mentioned, if it was just a wrong part ordered or installed....nope, just doesn't make sense for that alone to be the issue. If a supplier was told the client plans to need x1000 units of a part per month but then after the parts are made the client doesn't actually order them and they are on the suppliers shelf they are going to call the client way before 6 months to get them off the shelf. If ALL of the installers happened to be grabbing the wrong head gasket a foreman would think, why are we not consuming this inventory, still have the same number as the day before but we just turned out 50 engines. Once one of those happened the RS revision A head gasket would have been on hand, or shipped out right away, so it would be corrected very soon using the part that was made for the RS. But we have none, all are EBM parts until the RS revision B was put into production. I've seen the info about the changes to the RS EB engine and the gasket is highlighted, the picture even shows the updated bridge port cooling. Sorry, there is now way for as long as it happened this was not on someone's desk that signed off on it continuing with the EBM part.

If you want to talk about the money they are losing doing the recall.... guess what they already got your money. Had they put off production I really think the direct and indirect cost to them would have exceeded the cost of recall. First, all of those 2016 and most of the 2017 orders will not happen. The special orders on 2016s would have to be cancelled altogether (or moved back to 2017 and be likely every 2017 they could build minus orders that got cancelled), dealers that already got deposits will be very angry with Ford. Further delays would have been very bad press after the level of "global" hype they created and the promised Spring 2016 would not have been met.

I do think that if they didn't use the EBM part to get the car out the door in 2016 it would likely have been cancelled as I don't see Ford seeing any value or return on a 1 year run (some 2017s and mostly 2018s) before the plant had to switch over to build the mk4s.

I love the car and glad they built it, just think they need to be honest with us now.
 

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For nearly two model year's worth of cars? No way.
Perhaps - that said - until there is full and fair hearing on all of the facts I think judgment should be reserved. The people who really know what happened are not posting on this forum, nor has there been a trial on the merits with a complete airing of the evidence. Consider, the difference in costs between the two gaskets are negligible, and on a small volume car like this where the Ford's profits would not be significantly affected, it really makes no sense that they would intentionally use a wrong part to expedite the car's release. I think that's especially true for a halo car like the RS.
 

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Ford has no reason to bring forth any evidence or truth on this. They admitted there is an issue and have offered a fix. How it came to this will likely never be disclosed just like there is no real basis for a class action lawsuit at this time.
 

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Perhaps - that said - until there is full and fair hearing on all of the facts I think judgment should be reserved. The people who really know what happened are not posting on this forum, nor has there been a trial on the merits with a complete airing of the evidence. Consider, the difference in costs between the two gaskets are negligible, and on a small volume car like this where the Ford's profits would not be significantly affected, it really makes no sense that they would intentionally use a wrong part to expedite the car's release. I think that's especially true for a halo car like the RS.
Except you're not considering the cost of developing and testing an RS-specific gasket. My guess is someone thought they could save money by re-using the EBM gasket and it backfired big time. As soon as the first few failures happened, they would have taken those motors apart and been like "oh **** balls, we have the wrong head gaskets in them". But they waited until law firms started revving up class-action lawsuits before they did anything.
 

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The fact that they had all these new headgaskets ready to go means they knew as soon as the engines started failing and were already working on a fix. The lawsuits scared them into releasing it early, and before someone noticed they needed to replace a few more things, hence the updated FSA.

Remember kids, patience is a virtue.

But they waited until law firms started revving up class-action lawsuits before they did anything.
 

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Understand that it takes a long time to get a large company like ford...to go in the correct direction. Not an excuse... but righting a huge ship like his takes time.

However I still think class action should be activated for the issues. Hey screwed up big time, now pay... two reasons, firstly for reparations, second so they don’t **** **** up again like this!
 

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Understand that it takes a long time to get a large company like ford...to go in the correct direction. Not an excuse... but righting a huge ship like his takes time.

However I still think class action should be activated for the issues. Hey screwed up big time, now pay... two reasons, firstly for reparations, second so they don’t **** **** up again like this!
I just wished they'd extend the powertrain to 7/100k or something like that in good faith. Otherwise this screams we're just trying to get you out of the warranty period.
 

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The fact that they had all these new headgaskets ready to go means they knew as soon as the engines started failing and were already working on a fix. The lawsuits scared them into releasing it early, and before someone noticed they needed to replace a few more things, hence the updated FSA.

Remember kids, patience is a virtue.
That's a fair assessment.
 

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Understand that it takes a long time to get a large company like ford...to go in the correct direction. Not an excuse... but righting a huge ship like his takes time.

However I still think class action should be activated for the issues. Hey screwed up big time, now pay... two reasons, firstly for reparations, second so they don’t **** **** up again like this!
Good luck with that. There have been far greater issues than the HG issue with manufactures over the years and nobody got any kind of payout or reperatuon. I mean like life threatening issues. Hell just look at the Takata airbag mess and all the people with Hondas that are unsafe and worth way less if you are even lucky to trade it in. Dealers and potential buyers don't want a car with faulty airbags.
 

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Good luck with that. There have been far greater issues than the HG issue with manufactures over the years and nobody got any kind of payout or reperatuon. I mean like life threatening issues. Hell just look at the Takata airbag mess and all the people with Hondas that are unsafe and worth way less if you are even lucky to trade it in. Dealers and potential buyers don't want a car with faulty airbags.
"Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."
 

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"Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."
The first rule of recalls is we don't talk about recalls.
 

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Good luck with that. There have been far greater issues than the HG issue with manufactures over the years and nobody got any kind of payout or reperatuon. I mean like life threatening issues. Hell just look at the Takata airbag mess and all the people with Hondas that are unsafe and worth way less if you are even lucky to trade it in. Dealers and potential buyers don't want a car with faulty airbags.
LOL - People like me with a 2011 Mustang GT that took a couple years to get the air bags replaced. Car's still running strong at 170,000+ miles.
 

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LOL - People like me with a 2011 Mustang GT that took a couple years to get the air bags replaced. Car's still running strong at 170,000+ miles.
Lots of cars still have defective Takata airbags even after being recalled years and years ago. This includes my father’s Mercedes e-class.


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