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Discussion Starter #1
Hey everyone I am new to this page so go easy on me. I recently went thre my oem pads and rotors after a year a half daily driving and 6 track days at thunderhill. I have already upgraded to motul 660 and stainless steel brake lines. My problem is my automotive mechanical skills are not the best. I looking for a good combo that might last as long but my friend who is a hpde instructor wants me to be some more aggressive. This is my only car so I daily it about 9 miles a day with 4-5 track days a year. And help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 

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There is only so much you can do as far as improving braking without breaking the bank.

There is a bunch of aftermarket rotors but since they are drop-in replacement there is not much they can add in terms of performance, and there is nothing wrong with the OE rotors.

Most aftermarket pads are just mild road pads, and there are not many racing pads that fits the OE brakes, which are road brakes.

The Ferodo DS2500 pads are one of them and are step up from the OE pads, still completely streetable. I’ve them on my car with the OE rotors and I’ve nothing to complain about. Once bedded-in ther offer a decent improvement over the OE pads, I’ve no scientific measurement but I’d guesstimates 20% more friction or so, you can feel it.

If you want substantially more braking you need thicker rotors at the front first and foremost, and then you can use some more agressive race compounds but thicker rotors also requires wider calipers, and possibly other rims so it’s a big and costly project.

Also keep in mind you are first and foremost limited by tire grip. Unless you use proper track tires, big brakes might not provide as much benefits as they appear on paper if all you get is easy lock-up, plus temperature issue like less or no cold bite which make them less streetable.

So one solution that works to improve without breaking the bank and still 100% streetable is OE rotors and DS2500 pads squared (“at all four corners”) - I’d not recommend doing only the front: you want matching compound at the rear to maintain the brake balance, that cannot be adjusted.

If you don’t mind flushing the whole circuit once a year, 18 months max, the best brake fluid you can buy is Castrol SRF, no fluid comes close in wet boiling temp, which is what you want on a street car. Regular race fluids are very hygrophilic (they suck moisture from the ambiant air) and are normally flushed after each event to maintain their peak performance. I’d not recommend them for street use.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
My budget is hopefully $800 with fluid. I was running toyo r888 on my factory 19's but toasted them after 7 track days. I have a buddy at Ford who can hook me up with oem pads and rotors better than retail. Its hard to not go back to oem when I got 6 track days on them and I know that a more aggressive pad will help. I'm planning on learning how to do some basic changes like this for future changes. I have been thinking about changing to Castrol for my fluid since it looks like a lot guys run it and like it. Just try not have to have a street pad and track pad if i can avoid it but understand if that's the best solution and I don't running a race pad on the street is a good idea.
 

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If you’re going to keep doing track days you really need to learn to do brakes yourself.

I put Pagid RS29s on my GT350 and they’re fine on the street (noisy!), but I take them off just to keep them in shape for the track. Killer compound, love them.
 

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For sure learn how to DIY (it seriously is not very complicated) and have a dedicated set of pads for track

Besides, it would be a handy thing to know what to do if you are at the track and need to replace a set in a pinch!
 

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It sounds like you are just looking for a "set it and forget it" type of set-up that will work on both street and track. In that case, I would stick with the OEM set-up or get a slightly more aggressive street pad. Considering your relatively short commute, cold bite would be pretty important, so I wouldn't go with any track pads as a daily option.

Are you open at all to learning how to do a pad swap? If so, I would recommend getting two sets of pads (street and track) and sticking with regular blanks instead of cross-driller or slotted ones. Centric makes a decent blank for a good price.

If you are going to go with the street/track swap route, I would recommend getting both pads from the same manufacturer. This way, they are most likely made with the same or very similar compound, so you wouldn't have to rebed-in your brakes every time you swap. This is how I have mine set-up and swap between G-Lock GS-1's for daily and R12/R10 for the track, all on the same rotors.

I really like getting all my stuff at KNS brakes, good prices and customer service has been great.
 

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Check out Winmax W1 , I've just put those on mine, unreal!


  • OEM upgrade brake pads for performance minded drivers.
  • Performance pads, not track pads.
Winmax W1 brake pads are an organic based material suitable for performance street use. Low dust, Low noise properties make this pad popular for those looking to upgrade standard brake pads for something with some more oomph!

This pad is ideal for:
Everyday street use
Mountain runs
Enthusiast track days with small cars

Why buy this product?
Non-steel material brake pad are perfect for upgrade from factory
Low dust and quiet operation like OE pads, but more torque
For drivers wanting more stopping power from standard braking system
Works instantly from ambient temperatures
Provides long lasting pad life and rotor wear.

What you get:
1 part number = 1 set of pads. In most cases this is 4 pads per box. If your calipers take more than 2 pads per caliper (E.g Audi RS4), the part number you buy will include all the pads you need to service the axle set of calipers. Also included is bedding instructions to help you get the most out of your new pads.
 

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My budget is hopefully $800 with fluid.
Good recommendations, and I'll add my worthless opinion.

On pads:

For $800 (I'm assuming per year) you should get dedicated pads. Keep the stock brake package, monitor your dust boots, and change the front pads at the track. When you start tracking things become consumables. No way around it.

You don't need fancy pads. I haven't used them personally but Powerstop seem to be popular, well regarded, and are reasonably priced. If you're really allergic to changing pads, their Z26 compound looks like it may be able to serve double duty, and you can go front and rear with those. Hawks are pretty good too, may be slightly more expensive.

If you want to stretch your budget to the max, Endless brakes are my top choice, and a set front and rear will run you close to your budget. However, they are a little difficult to find in the US.

But the thing to keep in mind is you don't just need to find a solid product, it should be cheap to replace too.


On fluid:

You also don't need fancy fluid. Any DOT4 High BP fluid will do you just fine. Even something like ATE Gold, which is about $20 per liter (vs $70 for SRF) is perfectly good. Practically speaking you will not be able to tell the difference.

If you just need the best of the best, SRF is good but I never really liked it since it felt mushy. Personally I'd use Endless RF650 (hmm. Am I a fanboy?). It used to be cheaper but people are on to it now. It's the factory Porsche GT fluid and the MB F1 team (and probably others) uses it.

(Just to beleagure the point, the Porsche GT cars have better brakes than regular Porsches, and while the Endless fluid definitely contributes, the main part of the upgrade is a better brake master cylinder. To over simplify into a hypothetical, if you take a normal 911, change the brake fluid to RF650, you'd get 10% better brake system. But if you changed the master cylinder to the GT3 version and used stock fluid, you're getting an 80% better system.)
 

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All good information above. I track my RS at least 30 times a season plus an AutoX every weekend, drive to and from the track. Was my daily, 50 ile roundtrip. I beat the crap out of my braking system, I attest this to the vehicle being competitive. Tons of deep braking in questionable zones. From my own testing and information of competitors these combinations below will work.

Centric rotors on sale on TireRack, with awesome rebates on the site. They make it even easier and set combos for a reduced rate, link below. Load up on rotors when on sale or use the SCCA Track Nigh In America generous rebate. Also fancy the stock rotors as back ups, stout units. Local dealer or online Ford suppliers usually have a deal.

Brake pads are subjective and many factors determine what will work for you. Gloc R10 fronts or Hawk DTC60s, TireRack specials for the Hawks. For the rears yet again I find a deal on Hawk 9012s or HT10s, TireRack currently has a rebate and deep discounts for our platform. Or Gloc R8s. EBC yellows are surprisingly decent at the back, only. The rears do not demand as much labor, usually last twice as long compared to the fronts.

RBF600 fluid is always on sale at Amazon or FCPEuro that has a lifetime return policy. Any of these combinations will be well below your budget and still street friendly. Changing out the pads is extremely easy and quick, hardest part is jacking the car up and removing the wheels. You could run the same brand pads, for example DTC60 and HPS pads.

 

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There is only so much you can do as far as improving braking without breaking the bank.

There is a bunch of aftermarket rotors but since they are drop-in replacement there is not much they can add in terms of performance, and there is nothing wrong with the OE rotors.

Most aftermarket pads are just mild road pads, and there are not many racing pads that fits the OE brakes, which are road brakes.

The Ferodo DS2500 pads are one of them and are step up from the OE pads, still completely streetable. I’ve them on my car with the OE rotors and I’ve nothing to complain about. Once bedded-in ther offer a decent improvement over the OE pads, I’ve no scientific measurement but I’d guesstimates 20% more friction or so, you can feel it.

If you want substantially more braking you need thicker rotors at the front first and foremost, and then you can use some more agressive race compounds but thicker rotors also requires wider calipers, and possibly other rims so it’s a big and costly project.

Also keep in mind you are first and foremost limited by tire grip. Unless you use proper track tires, big brakes might not provide as much benefits as they appear on paper if all you get is easy lock-up, plus temperature issue like less or no cold bite which make them less streetable.

So one solution that works to improve without breaking the bank and still 100% streetable is OE rotors and DS2500 pads squared (“at all four corners”) - I’d not recommend doing only the front: you want matching compound at the rear to maintain the brake balance, that cannot be adjusted.

If you don’t mind flushing the whole circuit once a year, 18 months max, the best brake fluid you can buy is Castrol SRF, no fluid comes close in wet boiling temp, which is what you want on a street car. Regular race fluids are very hygrophilic (they suck moisture from the ambiant air) and are normally flushed after each event to maintain their peak performance. I’d not recommend them for street use.
Second this setup. I just got DAS2500 when I wanted something better brake wise, and have been very pleased. Easy to live with daily, reliable on track days.

Also second SRF. Worth the extra money IMO
 
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Hey everyone, happy this thread came up as I've been in a really similar situation.

I'm also taking care of brake things right new (SS lines, Hi temp dust boots, fluid, etc) and have been shopping / researching around for new pads. I was wondering if it's required to get fresh rotors for a serious track pad so the pads bed in properly? I was considering Carbotech XP12/10 for F/R but will take a look at the above mentioned pads as well. I want to make sure there won't be compatibility issues. I do not plan on swapping street / and track pads. If rotors aren't required, is there any work I can do the OEM rotors to make them more compatible? Should I also check the thickness of the rotor to make sure it hasn't thinned out to the minimum spec from Ford?

Thanks!
 

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On fluid:

You also don't need fancy fluid. Any DOT4 High BP fluid will do you just fine. Even something like ATE Gold, which is about $20 per liter (vs $70 for SRF) is perfectly good. Practically speaking you will not be able to tell the difference.

If you just need the best of the best, SRF is good but I never really liked it since it felt mushy. Personally I'd use Endless RF650 (hmm. Am I a fanboy?). It used to be cheaper but people are on to it now. It's the factory Porsche GT fluid and the MB F1 team (and probably others) uses it.
I'll add to this..

I previously used Motul RBF660 and had mushy pedal after 3-4 sessions, and no brakes by the end of track day. My first couple track days I did not bring my bleeding kit and had to drive home dangerously.

I swapped to Endless RF-650 before my previous track day, and my pedal feels as stiff today as it did when I flushed fluid before the track day. This is consistent with other feedback that you'll find about RF-650 from Endless.

Castrol SRF - $68.99/L (Amazon)
Endless RF-650 - $87.50/L (Amazon/Northstar Motorsports)

IME the reviews are true about Endless over Castrol SRF - while the Castrol product on paper has a higher temp, the chances of you reaching that temp might be slim, but in addition to that is to consider pedal feel. The Endless fluid had much firmer pedal feel and in addition to the reviews, it's my experience that Endless maintains pedal feel after multiple track days (at least one track day in my case.. I have Thunderhill coming up on Saturday and I'm not bleeding before hand, will let you know how it goes.)

^^all that is basically to say is worth the money (particularly over Motul fluid) considering I am already having to bleed the system less. Debate between Endless and Castrol is probably personal preference (assuming Castrol holds up after multiple track days). Also, all the above is saying something pretty good about Endless considering I am getting faster and faster with the car, each track day being more and more abusive to the braking system.
 

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I cannot compare SRF vs Endless as I never used the latter, but the key takeaway is most racing fluids have very short in-car life as you underlined

Many enthusiasts think Racing fluids are automatically better than the OEM fluid, which is true as far a boiling point on the day you flush the circuit, but this comes with a huge liability.

I’m not certain about the pedal feel quite frankly. Most inconsistencies in pedal feel comes from the wheel bearings, the lines and fluid have little to do with it.
 

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I cannot compare SRF vs Endless as I never used the latter, but the key takeaway is most racing fluids have very short in-car life as you underlined

Many enthusiasts think Racing fluids are automatically better than the OEM fluid, which is true as far a boiling point on the day you flush the circuit, but this comes with a huge liability.

I’m not certain about the pedal feel quite frankly. Most inconsistencies in pedal feel comes from the wheel bearings, the lines and fluid have little to do with it.
Wheel bearing? wtf are you talking about.... If wheel bearing were the cause of brake feel, doing a flush would change nothing, yet it does......
 
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Wheel bearing? wtf are you talking about.... If wheel bearing were the cause of brake feel, doing a flush would change nothing, yet it does......
Yes you are right, I should have said assuming a functional hydraulic disc brake system without leak or air in it, most inconsistencies in pedal travel comes from the ✨wheel✨bearings✨
 

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Brake fluid boil over is the water boiling out of solution. The main advantage SRF has over Motul is wet boiling temp, fluid that’s sat in unsealed containers or in the braking system continuing to hold water in solution at high temps as it absorbs water from contact with air, rather than allowing it to boil off into compressible steam ruining pedal feel and function.

Motorcycles I changed fluid religiously after track days so I ran cheaper Motul. In my performance cars I have not had the brake issues and run SRF for the higher wet boil performance.

What is getting so hot in the RS? Is it front brakes or rears from torque vectoring?
 

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Wow.
 
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