[thirdgen89gta]

Diesel oil has been a great way to protect most engines when modifying way beyond the OE spec, specifically because of the additive package (particularly zinc on pushrod motors with tappet cams). Take a late 1970s large displacement V8 smogger motor, bump up the compression, add a cam, why not some cylinder heads, and you're way beyond of what is recommended by the manufacturer. You can easily double the HP in these motors without trying too hard. Rotella oil is probably the best oil to use in these types of motors, and many others that are heavily modified.

Turbo DI motors are a completely different animal because of LSPI. Those additives cut down on wear, but they also grenade an engine due to LSPI. It's only been the last handful of years where the additive package of oils has been found to been a major contributor to LSPI, hence the recent SN+ standard for turbo DI motors. Now we know, but I can't remember if this was common knowledge in 2016 but I'm guessing more no than yes.

Truth. I run T6 in the trans am specifically because of the zinc content. It protects my cam/roller lifters from the high spring-rates needed because of how aggressive the cam lobes are.

I have the limiter set to 7200rpm, and my usual shift point is about 6500 when lightly and 7000 when absolutely ringing it.

it makes glorious noise.

 

[Sickflo_rs]

Just to play devils advocate for some of you, I popped an engine about 1 year after hg replacement. Cracked the block in the usual 2 places. I was tuned, WGA and 1 step colder plugs. Left the cobb and everything else installed. Still got a brand new long block under warranty. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to ask. In OP's case it's obviously a little different with the mileage, but others might have a chance.

 

[lucky phil]

Truth. I run T6 in the trans am specifically because of the zinc content. It protects my cam/roller lifters from the high spring-rates needed because of how aggressive the cam lobes are.

I have the limiter set to 7200rpm, and my usual shift point is about 6500 when lightly and 7000 when absolutely ringing it.

it makes glorious noise.

You shouldn't need a high ZDDP oil in a roller lifter engine.

Ciao

 

[thirdgen89gta]

You shouldn't need a high ZDDP oil in a roller lifter engine.

Ciao

When you run a cam with an extremely aggressive ramp and high RPM you do need it because the springs needed to keep the valves under control have to be much stronger. The Zinc layer that builds up from a high zinc oil protects the cam lobes from getting beaten up.

 

[lucky phil]

When you run a cam with an extremely aggressive ramp and high RPM you do need it because the springs needed to keep the valves under control have to be much stronger. The Zinc layer that builds up from a high zinc oil protects the cam lobes from getting beaten up.

Yes I understand the benefits and reasons for the ZDDP 1200 to 1400 ppm is plenty for a high performance flat tappet engine, it's a case of more isn't necessarily better after 1400 ppm. The thing is though a roller lifter and cam combination doesn't need the extra ZDDP protection like a flat tappet engine because there is no sliding motion of the lifter on the cam.That's the advantage of a roller lifter and cam combo it rolls on the lobe not slides like a flat tappet and therefore doesn't need a high zink level oil . I've just finished a full rebuild of an engine with flat tappets and am breaking it in using a high zink break in oil which I'll use for 500 klms and then change out. After that it will be an oil with 1200 ppm ZDDP.

iao

 

[thirdgen89gta]

Yes I understand the benefits and reasons for the ZDDP 1200 to 1400 ppm is plenty for a high performance flat tappet engine, it's a case of more isn't necessarily better after 1400 ppm. The thing is though a roller lifter and cam combination doesn't need the extra ZDDP protection like a flat tappet engine because there is no sliding motion of the lifter on the cam.That's the advantage of a roller lifter and cam combo it rolls on the lobe not slides like a flat tappet and therefore doesn't need a high zink level oil . I've just finished a full rebuild of an engine with flat tappets and am breaking it in using a high zink break in oil which I'll use for 500 klms and then change out. After that it will be an oil with 1200 ppm ZDDP.

iao

it actually does benefit from it.

zddp was reduced because of emissions and the way it interacts with cats.

It really helps out in protecting the cam when the crazy spring rates I need to control the valves. My engine was built for sustained high rpm, not just for drag racing. On track the car never sees below 4000rpm and often lives constantly in the 5000-6000rpm range with sprints to 7000 on the straights. The sessions are 20-30 minutes. That’s a lot of heat and wear.

The Limiter may be set at 7200, but the valve train can sustain 7500 and the bottom end can handle near 8k

 

[mexrs]

Now i understand why i was told by enine builder to use something like rotela t6 after being asked if i no longer have a catalytic converter.

I have not found that t6 oil around here. I am using castrol edge but now i see they released 5-30 SN PLUS.

The other oil, the one they recomend as main recomendation is lucas 10687 10-30 oil. or 10-40

Hot Rod & Classic Car 10W-30 Motor Oil

Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil SAE 10W-30 is manufactured with the highest quality paraffinic base oils and is fortified with a unique additive package containing high levels of zinc, molybdenum and phosphorus, which provides a tougher, thicker additive film for maximum protection even un...

lucasoil.com

So if i use it i risk LSPI?

 

[FORZDA 2]

Now i understand why i was told by enine builder to use something like rotela t6 after being asked if i no longer have a catalytic converter.

I have not found that t6 oil around here. I am using castrol edge but now i see they released 5-30 SN PLUS.

The other oil, the one they recomend as main recomendation is lucas 10687 10-30 oil. or 10-40

Hot Rod & Classic Car 10W-30 Motor Oil

Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil SAE 10W-30 is manufactured with the highest quality paraffinic base oils and is fortified with a unique additive package containing high levels of zinc, molybdenum and phosphorus, which provides a tougher, thicker additive film for maximum protection even un...

lucasoil.com

So if i use it i risk LSPI?

If their oil contains calcium as one of the detergents, then yes you do.

The T6 is a great oil for anything other than turbocharged DI(only). If you add an aux fuel system that sprays fuel into the ports, the LSPI problem is significantly reduced or even eliminated. In any case I recommend NOT using the T6.

 

[lucky phil]

Now i understand why i was told by enine builder to use something like rotela t6 after being asked if i no longer have a catalytic converter.

I have not found that t6 oil around here. I am using castrol edge but now i see they released 5-30 SN PLUS.

The other oil, the one they recomend as main recomendation is lucas 10687 10-30 oil. or 10-40

Hot Rod & Classic Car 10W-30 Motor Oil

Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Car Motor Oil SAE 10W-30 is manufactured with the highest quality paraffinic base oils and is fortified with a unique additive package containing high levels of zinc, molybdenum and phosphorus, which provides a tougher, thicker additive film for maximum protection even un...

lucasoil.com

So if i use it i risk LSPI?

Without getting into a back and forth oil thread I'll reiterate and leave it here. Zink or ZDDP is an antiwear additive that is to some degree the last line of defence in an engine and of most benefit in engines with flat tappets because of the high shear and scrubbing loads experience in that particular part of an engine. The more aggressive the cam the more it's needed. An engine with roller lifters which are the way the majority of engine builders go these days unless racing rules limit you to flat tappets dont need the same level of Zink (ZDDP) because the scrubbing loads aren't an issue with a roller cam. Zink was required to be reduced years ago due to its effect on cat converters and then the old school guys with flat tappets started to experience cam and lifter wear. easy solution? convert to roller lifters and cam and continue to use the evolving latest technology in oils. Other choice...keep your flat tappets and stick with older generation high ZDDP level oils.
There is a limit to ZDDP though and its generally accepted that any more than around 1400ppm offers no additional benefits.As long as the oil you use has between 1000 and 1200 ppm of ZDDP in a modern or roller cam engine you're going to be fine with regards to cam and follower wear, you'll also be fine in a non radical cammed road going flat tappet engine as well. You may need to up the ZDDP a little in a flat tappet race engine though. The ZDDP is of limited value in most other area of an engine though. Maybe the oil pump gears or cam gears but not a big deal for bearings etc. It's major use is around high shear loads like flat tappets.
Modern full synthetic oils have enough ZDDP for modern roller cam or OHC engines like the RS has. Mobil 1 0W-40 has 1000ppm and I use it in pretty much everything I own, so RS, 2.0L Escape,2.0L V6 Mazda, Guzzi V11 sport (air cooled flat tappet injected engine) Ducati 1198, Ducati 1000ss. The 2 Ducati's are track bikes.The only thing I dont use it in is my GSXR1000 track bike with the wet clutch.

Ciao

 

[MFdoom]

90,000 miles on a 2017 is crazy. You drove the absolute **** out of that car. I wonder if the high mileage+Tune had anything to do with the motor failure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[metroplex]

I have a friend with a 2017 Focus RS and she only has 34k miles on it. Had the headgasket recall performed and then she had to have the dealer replace the headgasket again. She mentioned that it uses up to 3 quarts per oil change interval and that she brought it back to the dealer just before the powertrain warranty is up. Dealer said a new engine is required and has held onto the car for over a month.

I asked if they told her the issue, and so far nothing was said on the root cause. I too suspected LSPI and a cracked piston/ring lands. She mentioned it did make a loud noise at one point. I know GM's early LTG's 2.0 GTDI had LSPI issues with cracked pistons and oil consumption.

The latest API SP / ILSAC GF-6A oils have reduced Calcium for this very issue, but the Focus RS in the US is spec'd to use 5W-50 while in Europe it seems to be 0W-40. The reason I know this is because I bought a bunch of Castrol Edge 0W-40 to use in another application since it was on sale, and it mentioned a Ford spec. So I looked it up and apparently the Castrol Edge 0W-40 made in Belgium is recommended for the European-spec Focus RS.

She does have a Mountune but this is the tune that's warranty compliant overseas, but apparently not so in the US? I make it a habit to now change my GTDI oil every 5k miles regardless of the oil life monitor.

 

[gbassrace]

Adam Rainey in Ireland of YT just said he uses 0w40 per the Euro spec. I just don't now why that's the case. The motors have to be the same out of Valencia, SP.

 

[JamoRS]

Adam Rainey in Ireland of YT just said he uses 0w40 per the Euro spec. I just don't now why that's the case. The motors have to be the same out of Valencia, SP.

Climate differences?

 

[gbassrace]

I am in the Northeastern US, lots of same climate and temps as Ireland. What does Ford spec for Canada?

 

[StoddRS]

5w50.

Could be that ford didn’t want to ship the 5w50 to Europe which is only used for Shelbys and the GT, and/or co-marketing agreement with castrol in Europe. The latter I think more likely.

Either way as long as you can find 0w40 that meets the uk spec it shouldn’t be an issue using either.

 

[White-RS2]

Not sure if this has been posted in this thread but it’s a pretty good spec for the $$

2.3L ECOBEAST™ SHORT BLOCK

2.3L ECOBEAST™ SHORT BLOCK|Ford Performance Parts

performanceparts.ford.com

 

[gbassrace]

Yes, that's makes sense re the Euro 0w40 spec. I guess Castrol didn't make 5w50 in 2015 but now they do and maybe we and the Mustangs in Europe are why. If my car saw a lot of very cold temps, I'd be running 0w40 but it's garaged. On track tho def only 5w50.

 

[Pezzar]

I use Castrol Edge Supercar in mine, was told to use this by Ford dealer after engine forging was done

 

[axelr]

A brand new short block from Tasca is $1566 2016-2018 Ford Focus Short Block G1FZ-6009-B | TascaParts.com - That could be the basis of your repairs. You need a gasket kit and a machine shop to recondition the head (clean, skim to Ra20 gasket surface finish)

The only things that really needs building are the connecting rods. I know the piston skirt break but how can a piston skirt not crack and break if the piston sits sideways in the bore because the rod is bent? I think the rods are the root cause of many issues on tuned stock engines, ranging from subtle bottom-end ticking to destructed engines. You can reuse the new rod bearings and the new pistons from the short block as-is, just swap the rods. A set of Callies forged rods with ARP bolts costs $459 from Mountune USA Callies C24101 Connecting Rod Set Ecoboost 2.3L

That’s 2k so far, then there are some mandatory new parts: the engine gasket kit (which includes a new head gasket and new head bolts, new valve stem gaskets, and all gaskets around the head) is around $154 (2016-2018 Ford Focus Valve Grind Gasket Kit G1FZ-6079-F | TascaParts.com), a new crank pulley bolt, new flywheel bolts, a new turbo-to-downpipe gasket, three new PTU-to-rear propshaft bolt pairs, new front knuckles bolts, a couple hundreds dollars at the machine shop, $35 for the Massive balance shaft delete kit (MAEN'8647 - Massive Speed Balance Shaft Delete Kit - Massive Hardcore Racing Performance Parts - Massive Speed System - Ford Focus Specialists) plus a bit of labor for swapping the rods and bolting the head on and you have a rebuilt long block with a brand new bottom and forged rods for about $3000 plus taxes.

You may need a new oil pump and oil pickup pipe for safety, depending on how your motor failed: if there is metal debris everywhere then you can no longer trust that pump, so that’s another $67 (2012-2020 Ford Oil Pump F2GZ-6600-A | TascaParts.com) and the oil pickup pipe EJ7Z-6622-A is about $18, you can still squeeze that in the 3k budget.

Once I asked a local independent mechanic how much they would charge for an engine swap if I supplied a long block. He owned a fully tweaked RS himself and he quoted 2k for the labor, plus consumables (oil, small hardware like exhaust studs if needed, copper washers, a couple o-rings, etc)

If you want to do a little something concrete to improve performance add the Ford Performance camshafts ($205 but you can find them cheaper if you shop around) 2015-2021 2.3L ECOBOOST HIGH PERFORMANCE CAMS - With that you need new sprocket bolts (either Ford or ARP) and friction washers, see this post: DIY Engine Build: ARP Bolts Shopping List and you could add more from the ARP shopping list if you wanted.

The total could be 5-6k if you shop around well and you get a perfectly valid repair with major new parts (block, crank, rods, pistons, oil pump, camshafts) with concrete reliability and performance improvements. Order parts from Tasca as they are much cheaper but you typically wait a few days and you pay for shipping. Ford charges more but you get free FedEx 2nd day, you can create an account as a private, you just need to designate a dealership for billing but they’ll ship 2nd day to your door.

 

[gbassrace]

Tasca is selling a bare block there, correct? Not a short block.