Ford Focus RS Forum banner

41 - 60 of 61 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
It's very strange for sure. I have owned a WRX and 3 Evos so I am very familiar with turbo lag but this seems like something in the throttle by wire system not processing the input linearly. It might have to do with some sort of torque management holdover from OE settings. I need to datalog it and send it to Randy. Only happens in 2nd gear.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
718 Posts
It's very strange for sure. I have owned a WRX and 3 Evos so I am very familiar with turbo lag but this seems like something in the throttle by wire system not processing the input linearly. It might have to do with some sort of torque management holdover from OE settings. I need to datalog it and send it to Randy. Only happens in 2nd gear.
Ahh interesting. Curious what you find.

I am on the OEM tune/bone stock car and noticing a hesitation as well, but it's well beyond where I should have turbo lag. Going half to 3/4 throttle in 3rd or 4th gear from 3k to 4k the car pulls, dials back, and then pulls decently again. Full throttle it seems to hesitate as well, but isn't as pronounced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,551 Posts
Discussion Starter #43
I would get that on the old tune. I assumed it was traction control acting weird. I don't have that on the Ford style calibration. The explosive torque was fun, but not super predictable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
403 Posts
Xicutioner - very interesting. I wonder if I need to ask Randy to do the same for my tune.

Just curious - did you only have that issue in 2nd gear? I need to log it maybe in a few gears to make sure I am not sensing something incorrect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
So right now I have no hesitation any more. Randy and I went through many revisions. Not trying to slight Randy, but we had a pattern of fixing one issue and creating two more.

At one point we had a boost that looked like this...
View attachment 229914

Prior to the most recent tune I ran into this issue of negative timing under load which was... bad.
View attachment 229906

Me to Randy:


Randy's Reply:


So now I am running this new calibration. I noticed that there is a little less torque than his previous strategy, but so far I haven't had any issue with weird fluctuations or any negative timing, etc. Feels like the stock tune, but without the hesitation from the OP. I sent Randy a new log. I think there are a couple timing changes that need to be made on the latest rev, but that's to be expected having moved to a new strategy.

I'd say right now I think we are on the right track, even if we don't pick up the gains from the old strategy I am happy enough where it is now.

View attachment 229922
I just went through a similar ordeal with my Randy tune. Went back and forth for several weeks trying to resolve the hesitation/surging behavior. I did my logs in 5th gear from about 2K-4K at around 50% throttle and was able to get the surging to show up consistently.

He ended up switching me to the oem strategy with throttle closure/no slot switching and the surging behavior is now gone. I also noticed less torque and response compared to the previous strategy but I’m still deciding which one I like better. I don’t mind a more mild tune overall. Switching to the oem strategy felt pretty anti-climactic. After weeks of tuning I almost feel like he ended up sending me a pre-made map since the file name looks kind of generic: myfirstname_lastname_Mountune USA MT3 91 TEST1J R123.ptm

Was your impression similar?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,551 Posts
Discussion Starter #46
I just went through a similar ordeal with my Randy tune. Went back and forth for several weeks trying to resolve the hesitation/surging behavior. I did my logs in 5th gear from about 2K-4K at around 50% throttle and was able to get the surging to show up consistently.

He ended up switching me to the oem strategy with throttle closure/no slot switching and the surging behavior is now gone. I also noticed less torque and response compared to the previous strategy but I’m still deciding which one I like better. I don’t mind a more mild tune overall. Switching to the oem strategy felt pretty anti-climactic. After weeks of tuning I almost feel like he ended up sending me a pre-made map since the file name looks kind of generic: myfirstname_lastname_Mountune USA MT3 91 TEST1J R123.ptm

Was your impression similar?
Yes, exactly the same impression. On top of that though I've been getting overboost DTCs that I have to assume is from a tuning issue with my IWG-75 installed. He sent me one last file and said that if that didn't work my only option is to "take it easy" :/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Yes, exactly the same impression. On top of that though I've been getting overboost DTCs that I have to assume is from a tuning issue with my IWG-75 installed. He sent me one last file and said that if that didn't work my only option is to "take it easy" :/
Is it on the oem strategy that you’re getting this issue? After calibration time was up I felt like I just got dropped :/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,551 Posts
Discussion Starter #48
Is it on the oem strategy that you’re getting this issue? After calibration time was up I felt like I just got dropped :/
Yes, I'm on the OEM style calibration. Randy, didn't drop me at the stated calibration time, but I would expect not given that the tune was throwing codes. Pretty underwhelmed with the tune right now. I'm thinking of going to Stratified or Panda.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,283 Posts
The hesitation is a lot more pronounced on my E30 Stratified tune. I haven't tried to address it but I wouldn't doubt you'd end up with a similar experience as with Mountune while hunting this engine gremlin.

Yes, I'm on the OEM style calibration. Randy, didn't drop me at the stated calibration time, but I would expect not given that the tune was throwing codes. Pretty underwhelmed with the tune right now. I'm thinking of going to Stratified or Panda.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
441 Posts
Computer-controlled-everything makes cars extremely tunable... But *damn* it can also make it impossible to track down weird behavior. It's what happens when you give engineers and software developers a set of requirements to meet and too loose of a leash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Has anyone found a solution to this yet? I am also noticing this on a Cobb stage 1 tune. I have observed the throttle blade position jump from about 10% to 100%, then back down to 25% under mild acceleration while holding throttle steady at about 50%.

It creates exactly the sensation you'd expect - suddenly mashing full throttle, then cutting it back.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Going to necro this thread. I just got a Stratified flash tune (93 Octane) for my RS a couple weeks ago. As a note, I had a Strat flash tune on my ST previously and it was great. No issues at all.

I did linear throttle mapping across the board. OAR set in at -1 as I have really great gas from a couple stations in my area. Negative corrections are minimal and never at WOT, mostly at part throttle and never above -1.5 degrees. I started seeing this hesitation after about a week at part throttle driving in 2nd and 3rd gear. It was random, and my immediate thought was that maybe something was not liking the linear throttle mapping on Sport/Track mode, as it was not occurring in Normal mode.

After watching it some more through the AP, I started to think plugs. I am awaiting a set of plugs, pre-gapped, from Stratified just to check as my current plugs have about 11k miles on them. For now I am back on the stock tune, but I am noticing it there now even, though it is very much reduced in severity. It definitely feels like the ECU is closing the throttle for some reason. The feeling reminds me of the traction control on my 2010 GT500, which was my first car with a drive-by-wire throttle.

I did also notice that this does seem to coincide with a sudden dump of fuel by the ECU when putting in throttle say after a gear change or after a throttle lift. It almost seems like the ECU is expecting you to go WOT right after the shift/throttle lift and for about 1-2 seconds drops the fuel it would need for that high amount of boost.

Bottom line is I don't think this is a single issue, but a combination of ECU controls that facilitate this issue. And I believe it is more noticeable on aftermarket tunes over the stock tune because of more fuel being dumped and more timing advance being added. I have not contacted Stratified yet, but I think I am going to get them to adjust my Sport/Track/Drift mode throttle to aggressive. I will probably do that first, then change the plugs, so I can gauge the effect of each change. I had already tried to run a gallon of E85 in with my standard 93 fill to rule out bad gas, but saw no change. I will update with any info I gather.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
342 Posts
I have the weird throttle surge as well, i thought it was plugs at first, changed those to pregapped from mountune, then it continued to happen so i thought maybe the stock air recirculation valve cant handle the added boost from the tune so i replaced it with the mountune air recirculation valve and it still exists so im at a loss as to what it could be. Now i just try not to floor it while in the upper gears 🤷‍♂️
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,424 Posts
both stratified tunes and stock tunes ive never really noticed a hesitation. Only ‘bog’ in throttle is the very noticeable one when ‘hill assist’ is on. You could also datalog the factory tune and see what it’s doing

edit: anyone have some dashcam or gopro footage of this happening?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Put the new plugs in this morning. Old plugs actually looked really good, but were slightly more open compared to the new. Loaded the tune and drove around to get the OAR to -1. Took two large datalogs. Every point in the log where I lifted throttle and then re-applied throttle, the AFR went a good bit rich, and it is the spots where I noticed the hesitation.

I will say it was not as bad this time around, but I will have to drive it for a few days and see. Take some more logs. At this point it seems to me just to be a tune adjustment is needed to correct this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Back to stock tune. Nothing is getting around this hesitation. Part throttle driving on my daily commute is just painful. Its really annoying because the car is an absolute rocket ship at full throttle, with no knocks, negative corrections, etc. 1st and 2nd gear especially are just stupid on the tune at WOT.

And I think the pre-gapped plugs I got were gapped to tightly. I put my old plugs back in with 10K miles on them (gapped at .026) and uninstalled the AP. Car is purring now, smooth and clean all round. I think I am just going to wait a while before I tune and ensure there are no underlying issues with the motor. I also have an AWE Switchpath cat-back and Mountune recirc valve on the way. Before I tune down the road I will upgrade the I/C and just go to JST since I am close to their location. I will be more comfortable to have the car tuned on the dyno and be there to look at what is going on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
i also have the 1/4 second throttle cut / hesitation. i have 93 tune IWG with Randy. the car never did this until about 5k miles ago. i had the tune done 20k miles ago and it never happened back then. after the 1st time it happened it slowly began to happen more frequently. now its like every time i punch it under 4k rpm..it will happen.
i thought it was my spark plugs...cuz they need to be changed badly.
hopefully when the plugs arrive and i change em...it will stop. will update in a week.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
could this be a purge valve issue?
If I was getting it on the stock tune I would say maybe, but I am not anymore. I did get it on the stock tune a little with the plugs that were gapped a little tight. And I know before I bought the car last August I confirmed 3 times that the VIN had all recalls and the HG job already completed.

For now I am just going to ride it stock until I can truly verify no issues. I also do want to upgrade the intercooler as well before tuning again. The stock is not bad at all for a light tune, but it is just too damn hot and humid in coastal south Georgia to not upgrade.
 
41 - 60 of 61 Posts
Top