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AWD technics, is the real all wheel drive ???

This is a discussion on AWD technics, is the real all wheel drive ??? within the Focus RS Discussions forums, part of the Focus RS Forums category; edited for accuracy until truth is revealed as company engineer and companies president of program management are saying opposing things...

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Thread: AWD technics, is the real all wheel drive ???

  1. #21
    gte
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    edited for accuracy until truth is revealed as company engineer and companies president of program management are saying opposing things
    Last edited by gte; 10-16-2015 at 06:34 AM.
    2016 Focus RS (first in MD and one of the first 50) 11.93 @ 116mph on street tires, 450whp/478wtq
    2012 Nissan GTR BL1400
    Corolla XRS turbo

  2. #22
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    Well, I have read that thread. and I've not contradicted the engineer as best I can tell. gte, you stated you are a street/drag racing type, so under those conditions it does take a lot of power to spin both front wheels. I'm talking more about WOT acceleration in a corner where a lot of the weight is moving to the outside side of the car and some to the rear, very easy to spin A front wheel like this. With an open diff up front unless the system applies the brake on that front spinning wheel the power to the ground through that outer gripping wheel is no greater than the spinning wheel can achieve. Without numbers, that Scooby understandably can't provide, I can't say if 70% can or cannot go to the back, but it could be possible. But, if combined the rear clutches are designed to handle 70% of 350 lb ft(advertised power), so say 175 lb ft on each side, and marketing ran with that, well, that is what they do, spin numbers into percents that sound good to sell people on a product. If they did do that, what if they based that 70% on the 326 lb ft numbers first made public, now with 350 lb ft unless they change the target goal of the RDU's clutches too it should be less than 70% of power to the rear based on how ever they calculated it. I still plan on buying an RS. And for the foreseeable future it will remain SCCA auto-x Street class legal.
    2016 NB RS1 Forged w/ Cup 2s and Winter W&T Package

  3. #23
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    That's true, I've done this in my wrong wheel drive vehicles when coming out of a corner on a regular road, especially on an incline. It would be interesting to know if the trans has a factory LSD as well, that would answer a lot of questions about how much traction one of the front wheels could lose.

    I might try auto crossing with this car, I've always wanted to, but have never pursued it. It seems like a lot of people really enjoy it.



    Quote Originally Posted by ControlNode View Post
    Well, I have read that thread. and I've not contradicted the engineer as best I can tell. gte, you stated you are a street/drag racing type, so under those conditions it does take a lot of power to spin both front wheels. I'm talking more about WOT acceleration in a corner where a lot of the weight is moving to the outside side of the car and some to the rear, very easy to spin A front wheel like this. With an open diff up front unless the system applies the brake on that front spinning wheel the power to the ground through that outer gripping wheel is no greater than the spinning wheel can achieve. Without numbers, that Scooby understandably can't provide, I can't say if 70% can or cannot go to the back, but it could be possible. But, if combined the rear clutches are designed to handle 70% of 350 lb ft(advertised power), so say 175 lb ft on each side, and marketing ran with that, well, that is what they do, spin numbers into percents that sound good to sell people on a product. If they did do that, what if they based that 70% on the 326 lb ft numbers first made public, now with 350 lb ft unless they change the target goal of the RDU's clutches too it should be less than 70% of power to the rear based on how ever they calculated it. I still plan on buying an RS. And for the foreseeable future it will remain SCCA auto-x Street class legal.
    2016 Focus RS (first in MD and one of the first 50) 11.93 @ 116mph on street tires, 450whp/478wtq
    2012 Nissan GTR BL1400
    Corolla XRS turbo

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    Quote Originally Posted by gte View Post
    That's true, I've done this in my wrong wheel drive vehicles when coming out of a corner on a regular road, especially on an incline. It would be interesting to know if the trans has a factory LSD as well, that would answer a lot of questions about how much traction one of the front wheels could lose.

    I might try auto crossing with this car, I've always wanted to, but have never pursued it. It seems like a lot of people really enjoy it.
    Nothing like it. Straight lines b come boring after you road course and autoxross.

    You want to get the most out of your gtr ID highly recommend it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gte View Post
    That's true, I've done this in my wrong wheel drive vehicles when coming out of a corner on a regular road, especially on an incline. It would be interesting to know if the trans has a factory LSD as well, that would answer a lot of questions about how much traction one of the front wheels could lose.

    I might try auto crossing with this car, I've always wanted to, but have never pursued it. It seems like a lot of people really enjoy it.
    Fairly sure it was stated somewhere that like the ST the front differential is an open type, but uses the brakes to create an eLSD as needed. I think this was part of the reason for the brake cooling ducts on the front of the RS as tracking the ST resulted in several people cooking their brakes and Ford didn't want the RS to have this weakness.

    Auto-x is great if you have a friendly and inviting club to run with. I'm lucking in that the club I run with is such a club and we have one of the best sites for auto-x in NC 5 minutes from my house. For the last several years I've hosted meets for those with old Civic/CRX of my generation in Oct that coincide with an auto-x event here. Perhaps I'll do the same with the RS community, but gotta get the car first.
    gte likes this.
    2016 NB RS1 Forged w/ Cup 2s and Winter W&T Package

  7. #26
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    I'll be honest with you, my GTR is too fast for an autocross course, at least I think it is and I'd be very nervous about someone damaging it since insurance does not cover racing events. The best word I can use to describe it is violent, it's literally violent when it accelerates and I can only turn the power down so much ... maybe at the lowest pump gas setting it would be reasonable, I don't know?

    I can however see it being a lot of fun with a stock GTR and maybe even with a full bolt on GTR, but you're still risking 100k and hoping another driver doesn't damage your vehicle.

    I feel like a great autocross car would be an old DSM (until it broke, lol)



    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Nothing like it. Straight lines b come boring after you road course and autoxross.

    You want to get the most out of your gtr ID highly recommend it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2016 Focus RS (first in MD and one of the first 50) 11.93 @ 116mph on street tires, 450whp/478wtq
    2012 Nissan GTR BL1400
    Corolla XRS turbo

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    Quote Originally Posted by gte View Post
    I might try auto crossing with this car, I've always wanted to, but have never pursued it. It seems like a lot of people really enjoy it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Nothing like it. Straight lines b come boring after you road course and autoxross.

    You want to get the most out of your gtr ID highly recommend it.
    Quote Originally Posted by gte View Post
    I'll be honest with you, my GTR is too fast for an autocross course, at least I think it is and I'd be very nervous about someone damaging it since insurance does not cover racing events...
    I agree with what the others are saying. Autocrossing is great, and while there is only a few minutes of actual drive time, not going through a thrash (and expense) of a track day is really nice.

    I'm sure if you got out to a nationals level course, the course would be big enough to handle the GTR. Corvettes and Porsches seem to have their fair share of winning in AS at nationals.

    Mike K
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crooked Letta View Post
    I don't mean to be impolite but if you think the ST has an understeer problem you need to go to driving school. Never have I once encountered a situation when driving my ST that it defaulted to understeer. I do have a Steeda RSB but have driven many in stock form and can say the same. The back end is always willing to come out and play especially while trail braking. I guarantee you that the FoST and FiST understeer way less then any Golf R. I will also say after driving a WRX and a some what prepped FiST for rally, that the FiST was the better handling car even on dirt, it was also faster and I could dance the ass end on that Fiesta with more control and finesse then the WRX.
    I wouldn't necessarily say that it has a problem, perhaps I was a bit harsh in saying that it's "pretty bad", because under normal driving conditions it doesn't occur - it's only when you start to push the car that understeer rears its ugly head, which is to be expected. I don't understand when you say that your car has never 'defaulted' to understeer though - for a FWD car powered understeer is the only option. The only time the back end comes out is when you lift off (a stupid design in my opinion), you will never get the ST to oversteer when you're into the throttle - it's impossible, that's just physics.
    Last edited by RyguyC; 10-15-2015 at 03:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by focus man View Post
    So it's not always on awd? 50/50 like the wrx/Sti?
    The WRX STi isn't a straight 50/50 split. The center diff can vary the torque from 50/50 to 35/65 biased towards the rear (varies year by year. I'm speaking about my '05).

    This is the DCCD and you can definitely tell the difference when you mess with it.
    Last edited by unixgeek; 10-15-2015 at 03:12 PM.

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    Here's a good article that speaks specifically about the RS's drivetrain:

    GKN supplies innovative AWD system to Ford Focus RS -- AUBURN HILLS, Mich., Oct. 13, 2015 /PRNewswire/ --

    Some highlights:
    - Definitely NOT a mechanical 50/50 split
    - Can apply torque to one or both wheels independently (we knew this)
    - "When AWD is engaged" implies that in straight line conditions, without limited traction, it's FWD
    - The system drives the rear wheels faster than the front (more torque to rear)
    Last edited by unixgeek; 10-15-2015 at 03:15 PM.

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