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Track Pads?

46K views 118 replies 54 participants last post by  seniorgeek 
#1 ·
I see Carbotech now has RS pads. Anyone aware of any other options for the track? Hawk, Pagid, PFC etc? Last fall spent 6 days on track (2 events) with the OEM stock pads and they were not all that bad. Stopped reasonably well, no big fade issues and rotors still looked great. Could be I was just not going fast enough...lol.
 
#56 ·
Haven't seen anything posted about Mountune but they released som street and track pads, I used their Re-branded Hawk track pads on my old Focus ST and they were suburb on track but excursively for the track. It appears for the RS they have partnered with WINMAX. Anyone have an reviews or knowledge of this company? Thinking of getting a pair along with SS brake lines. Thoughts?
 
#59 ·
I have the Mountune track pads on my rs and found them to be more than adequate on track. I also installed ss lines and flushed the stock fluid with Motul rbf600. They had good initial bite, never faded on me and were easy to modulate under very hard braking. I would definitely give them consideration.
 
#57 ·
IMO brake pads are very much a personal choice, you have to find the ones that work for your driving style. I haven't had any issues with Carbotech or G-Loc on the BRZ or Mustang (using 12/10 combo). I recently started using G-Loc R16s on the BRZ and ran them for 50 minutes with no issues (BRZ is superharged to roughly 320HP, 328mm Stoptech BBK, brake ducts). Are they the best pad; no, but they can work just fine.
 
#60 ·
I just did a track weekend on Mountune Street pads. They worked great for 90% of the 6 20 mins sessions I had. I was driving hard. No coasting on a 2.8 mile road course. slowing down from 100+mph 4 times each lap! I would only get a soft pedal on the very last laps and it could have been the fluid becoming overheated.
 
#63 ·
I've read this thread through a time or two now, and I wanted to ask some of the folks in here for help with tackling my braking issue. @DocWalt @Dave-ROR @chumpracerj

Last week was my first time out, and I had 2 days of 4 30 min sessions at VIR. Track temps were into the 120s, so it was definitely hot. Brakes were stock, aside from stainless lines and fresh RBF600. Tires are 235/35 MPSS, was running between 35-38 PSI HOT, playing with what worked best for me. Car is mostly stock (lowering springs, catback, filter and Radium plate/catch cans), and I was hitting ~125 on south straight and ~115 on front straight, for reference. Car was in track mode with sport ESC on.

Early laps were fine, as I was still getting my feet wet. But as I pushed deeper into braking zones, the pedal was going soft and further towards the floor. Wasn't the most confidence inspiring thing. I would end up braking earlier and/or pulling up on the straights to compensate. I was still getting ABS engagement under hard braking, but the pedal would be practically on the floor. Always took my checker as a cooldown, and did a lap in the paddock as well. Still, by the end of day 1, the pedal was mush. On the drive home after day 2, I was almost unable to heel-toe, the pedal was so deep.

I inspected everything last night, and bled the brakes to check for air. There were a few bubbles in the front calipers, but that may have been from the bleeder angle into the bottle? Anyway, I noticed that the front pads were worn quite a bit. I'd say about 50% life, and the car only has 9k miles. Rear pads still show the champhered edge of the pad, so wear was minimal, but there were signs of pad deposits on the rotors (front and rear). Making me thing it wasn't fluid boiling, but rather that the pads were grossly overheated. Probably driver error on my part, my instructor was having me drag brakes longer than I thought was needed, but I didn't want to argue since it was my first event. Or maybe the traction control or vectoring diff was dragging them as well? Either way, was a lot of heat in the system.

So, does this sound like it was most likely the pads overheating? If so, should I be considering a different pad for the track that has a higher temp rating? Any suggestions on one that is good for a novice driver? I'll be swapping at the track, so I don't care about dust or noise, as I'll be using the stock pads for street use (unless someone has a great "trackable street" pad recommendation).

Or, are the stock pads good enough, and I should look into better heat management, like adding Ti pad shims, or playing with the brake ducting?

Or, is this something that I need to fix with driving style?

Sorry, long post, but I want to make sure I'm safe out there! Thanks for any help guys.
 
#64 ·
I'd do the Ti pad shims and G-Loc R16 pads up front and maybe R12 rears (I had R10 rears and they almost had enough temperature range). Stock pads won't hold up for longer sessions, and contrary to what the "time attack bro" on facebook says... R12 pads won't hold up on the front axle either. 3 laps is a lot less abuse than 30 minute sessions. I melted my R12/R10 combo like you did to the stock pads.

Keep in mind, as you find pace you'll use the brakes better, but still put a lot of heat into them. FWIW I was at 132 on back straight & 125 or so on front straight, IIRC.

Were you at VIR with Trackdaze?
 
#65 ·
I was there with TrackDaze, yes! Were you there as well? I didn't see any other RS's. I am hoping/planning to go back in November when they open the Grand course, since I've heard that's a great track layout. It was a great time, and the IMSA teams there were amazing to watch, but the longer 30-min sessions were definitely hard on the brakes. I need to work on my corner exit speeds (turn 12 especially) to get higher on the back straight. I could have pushed a bit more on the front, probably, but the long pedal was making me nervous.

Do you have a link or source to where I can buy the G-Locs? I've heard someone else mention that brand as well, but haven't been able to find a lot on them (as it pertains to our cars, at least). When I look for Focus RS on their website, it only brings up the Mk 2.

I assume for the Ti shims, I'd just get some sheet Ti and trim to fit, right? Or is there an aftermarket solution already?
 
#69 ·
I had Carbotech XP12/10 which at the time was exactly the same as G-Loc's R12/10 combo. I've not been burnt by either manufacturer (GLoc spawned from CT) but I was tired of choosing lower level pads than needed at recommendation of vendors.... I have melted all but one set of pads at one point or another.
 
#71 ·
RS stock rotor size is under-sized (350x25) comparing to other comparable popular mid-size track cars as EVO 10 348x32 or Golf R MK5 345x30, so being RS has a smaller heat sink (rotor) it puts more stress to the brake pads for doing the same amount of work (heat load), which would lead to un-satisfactory result.

A healthy braking system can not be achieved by just changing a brake pad (no matter what brands or compounds), without increasing the thermal capacity or the braking efficiency - The fundamental solution is a better approach to resolving those brake issue.
 
#72 ·
So I'm going to Watkins Glen International in a few weeks to do my first HPDE weekend in the RS. I'm DE1 and was wondering what you all think I should do for pads. I've been on track before and I'm not very hard on the brakes but that's usually because we're not going very fast since it's been no passing rules. I was thinking of trying EBC Yellows for now but after reading this thread thinking of going straight for G Loc r16. The Glen is not a place to play around considering the speeds going into the bus stop.
 
#73 ·
When will you be there? and with which club? I'll be there with the BMW CCA doing tech and registration.

As for pads I'd go with a true track/race pad. Carbotech XP12 Front and Rear or GLoc R16 front R12 rear.
 
#75 ·
Whats everybody's experience with the DS2500 on track? Seriously considering getting a set and paring them with Goodridge lines and Motul RBF 660 of Ferodo Super Formula fluid.

I want pads that can also be used on street/road. I don't care if they are noisy or make a lot of dust. My main concern is that they work properly when cold. There are a lot of instances on the open road where you don't use the brakes for a while and then you need to stop really hard.
 
#76 ·
I've used the DS2500's in another car, and I would call them a high performance street, mild track pad. They turn ashen and crumble when you get them too hot, which won't be too hard in the RS. I used some Carbotech XP10's recently and they lasted two track days. There's plenty of pad left, but what's left is cracked and crumbling, which tells me they got too hot, and XP10's handle more heat than DS2500's. I had no brake fade issues with those pads, but my sessions were cut short due to RDU overheat.
 
#77 ·
Guys - I've finally found some guys/a thread that might be help to help with some advice. I would really appreciate your input.

2017 RS stock. Willow Springs - one day, brake fluid upgrade only. Not a heavy braking course, but hot. No problems.

Autoclub Roval for two days last weekend. Lots of upgrades this time - 338hp at the wheels. Brakes: EBC Yellowstuff, turned stock rotors (6k miles - so not much removed), same Motul brake fluid. Pedal was soft at the end of some sessions. Day 2 - nearly lost the brakes completely at the end of the day. Take a look - EBCs are metal to metal. The course is hard on brakes and maybe I am too, but it seems I got something wrong with this setup.

It's clear I need at least rotors, pads and brake fluid, but what do I buy? I don't care about street performance/noise at all - I definitely want it to perform at the track.

Hawk told me today that pads for the RS will be "a month or so away", rotors maybe in the future. There are plenty of places that claim to make race quality setups, but I don't have the background to tell them apart, and your experience would probably send me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance.
 
#79 · (Edited)
Guys - I've finally found some guys/a thread that might be help to help with some advice. I would really appreciate your input.

It's clear I need at least rotors, pads and brake fluid, but what do I buy? I don't care about street performance/noise at all - I definitely want it to perform at the track.


Thanks in advance.
As its been stated on the thread and a few others once you are into serious tracking (and it sounds like you are) the stock rotors (with any pads) can't dissipate the heat from tracking even with cooling!
And for that mater the OE calipers can't take it either. You can try a wider 2 pc rotor with OE caliper but it still may fall short for your performance expectations.
Thus if your going to spend the money go for the larger diameter, wider 2 pc rotor, CNC caliper with Stainless steel pistons and add cooling. You won't regret it.

RB have a great BB kit (rotor 380x32) and fantastic support. I've had great success with this see my post http://www.focusrs.org/forum/33-foc...-report-rs-mods-performance-improvements.html
 
#83 ·
My local shop had a chat with Hawk today, and apparently they’re looking to start production in the first week of May and they should be shipping starting the end of May. But if they’ve been making similar promises before, I would take that with a grain of salt. They did mention that the demand for RS pads is really high, so they’re taking it seriously.
 
#81 ·
Bingo13 - just read your post. I ended up with exactly your recommendations - but will have to wait on the girodisc two piece upgrade. SS lines and Castrol SRF are sitting in the garage and DBA t3 4000's are supposed to show up today.

I think Autoclub speedway was particularly hard on brakes - so this combo might help with an easier WillowSprings day.

If I'm going to end up with new calipers anyway - I would love to hear what your (and your friend's) experience is with Racing Brake and AP Racing. Otherwise I'm just sifting through pages trying to figure it out. Scoped a Brembo GTR front upgrade for $8k... wow.

Thx again for the help.
 
#84 ·
Does anyone else feel like there is a dearth of pad options for the Focus RS even after almost two years in the market? (At least in a Street / Track friendly compound). Performance Friction only makes pads for the MK.1 RS, Hawk is still AWOL, and the most promissing Carbotech and EBC seem to be more Track oriented. I daily my RS and hit the track 2-3 times a year, so far only with OEM pads, but want better Track performance.

What are you guys doing that DD the RS for brake pad options? Should I stick with OEM's if I don't track that much?
 
#85 ·
When I was trying to decide what pads to get, I searched for graphs that show coefficient of friction in relation to temperature. I had used several different Wilwood compounds (Poly A and BP-10) in the past on my SVT Contour, so I knew sorta where I wanted to be for useable temperature. I decided on Mountune's track pads, and I'm really happy with their drivability on the street. They only thing they could do better is not throw so much dust. They're quiet, with only a very occasional very minor squeal with light pedal pressure. I haven't tracked the car since I installed them, but I'm hoping to get out this summer at least once.
 
#88 ·
I played with a few pad options. I wanted something great on the track and whatever on the street. I went through EBC yellows in less than a day at Fontana. Switched to DBA one piece rotors (great value) and Ferodo DS 1.11 pads (pricey but worth it). They've been through three track days and probably have one more left in them. The brakes have BITE and are awesome on the track. They're noisy on the street at very low speeds coming to a stop, but whatever. I know you're after something more street friendly, but I added my experience in case it was helpful.
 
#92 ·
EBC - Yellow 5 sessions only at thunderhill west
OEM- 3 track days held itself pretty well
GLOC R12- 3 Awesome track days probably 1 more but decided its time thunderhill east
GLOC R16- 3 Awesome track days with 1 being Laguna Seca well known for eating through brakes FAST!

Cant wait to use my new set of R16 again!
 
#93 ·
Quite a few RS owners asking us about the "dedicated" track pads (for OE calipers and RB caliper kits), I am pleased to announce that we have since worked with Cobalt Friction to make their XR1 compound for RS OE calipers (Front PD1997 only) and RB calipers (4 & 6 pot).

We now have Cobalt XR1 pads for RB 4 (PD1149) and 6 pot (PD1666M) calipers are now in stock, and expect to receive OE caliper pads in about 2 weeks (mid July). Here is the performance characteristics of XR1.
https://www.cobaltfriction.com/Articles.asp?ID=252

Cobalt Friction although is not as well known as those brands you have learned, but we consider it has the best friction to RB's iron rotor metallurgy based on our experience in a BMW M3/M4 dedicated club race car.
 
#96 ·
Hi all,

Hoping you can help me come to a decision on brake pads. I've read through this thread and the thread I linked below, and am still unsure of what I want to do :).

My goal is to do a lot of track days/autocross (at LEAST 1/month) while the weather is nice in Chicago . Last summer I did 2 track days, and 2 autocrosses, but I plan to do much more during summer 2019. Last summer, I installed SS brake lines and flushed the system with Motul RBF600 (going to Castrol SRF in a few weeks). My OEM pads have been used for DD for ~25K miles, and for all of the track days and autocrosses I have attended since I got the car in 2017. I am not that hard on the brakes, but as my driving improves I suspect I will want to brake harder/later. I have not had any issues with the OEM pads thus far, but I am looking to upgrade for track days to be on the safe side. This is my first time considering anything like a "track pad", so any input would be appreciated :).

In my mind, my goal is to order two sets of pads (one for street and one for track) and be able to swap them back and forth. That being said, here is what I believe are my three options:

1) Order a new set of OEM pads and just continue to use these for DD and track days. Replace as necessary.
-Pros: They haven't let me down yet. So far I am a really big fan of the stopping power and feel of the OEM pads. They are also relatively inexpensive. Given my current driving, I know I can roll up to the track with these pads, track the car, and drive it home with no troubles.
-Cons: I foresee myself finding the limits of these pads this summer, and I would prefer not to find it at the end of a long straight :). Also, these pads are dusty. I can live with it, but I would not be opposed to something with less dust for DD.

2) Order a second set of OEM pads for DD, and a set of something else for track days. Considering G-LOC R12s. I don't really know much about track pads, but from what I've gathered here, the G-LOCs or Carbotechs are a popular choice. I don't think I drive as hard as some of you, so I think I would be ok with R12s all around.
-Cons: I believe that the R12s are not compatible with the OEM compound, so I would either need to "clean" my rotors every time I swap them, or have a dedicated set of rotors. I would prefer to swap pads only for track days (if this is feasible).

3) Order a set of G-LOC GS-1 for DD, and a set of G-LOC R12s for the track
-Pros: I THINK this gives me what I am looking for. My understanding is that if I swap between these two sets of pads, I do not need to swap rotors, and just a simple re-bedding should do the trick. Can anyone speak do this? Also, I believe the GS-1's should have similar stopping power to OEM, and have less dust. Would the GS-1's be ok for autocross? Again, I'm not super hard on the brakes, no where near as hard as during track days.
-Cons: Overall the most expensive option I listed. Additionally, since I don't have any first hand experience with the GS-1's, I'm afraid I won't like them compared to the OEM pads. I'm hesitant to switch from something that I know works just fine. Don't fix it if it's not broken....right??

Sorry for the novel, but again any input is appreciated. Thanks! :)

https://www.focusrs.org/forum/29-focus-rs-brakes/73138-recommendation-brake-pads-3.html
 
#97 ·
3) Order a set of G-LOC GS-1 for DD, and a set of G-LOC R12s for the track
-Pros: I THINK this gives me what I am looking for. My understanding is that if I swap between these two sets of pads, I do not need to swap rotors, and just a simple re-bedding should do the trick. Can anyone speak do this? Also, I believe the GS-1's should have similar stopping power to OEM, and have less dust. Would the GS-1's be ok for autocross? Again, I'm not super hard on the brakes, no where near as hard as during track days.
-Cons: Overall the most expensive option I listed. Additionally, since I don't have any first hand experience with the GS-1's, I'm afraid I won't like them compared to the OEM pads. I'm hesitant to switch from something that I know works just fine. Don't fix it if it's not broken....right??

^This is the route I took (GS-1 for daily and R12/R10 F/R for the track). You are correct that both have compatible transfer layers (technically, they are also compatible to Carbotechs) and I specifically went with this option because of this. Swapping rotors is slightly more involved with this car than my previous (BRZ, which i regularly swapped rotors and pads for trackdays) so it was worth it. So far the GS-1's have been comparable to the OEMs bite-wise, about the same with the dust as well. I couldn't tell you how they perform at autox since I haven't done so yet.
 
#103 ·
I just bought Endless CCRG front and read pads, hope to install them soon. I had them before on my EvoX and GolfR, the braking on track was amazing

ps. some time ago I was at Nürburgring and rented a seat leon cupra (same as VW GTI). I have done a 4 laps, that is about 80km, the brakes was fine and I was really surprised. The rental guy told me the they are using endless ccrg pads with girodisc rotors. After that I'm using such combination on all my cars and I'm really happy with it.
 
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