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Tesla Model S on Track

This is a discussion on Tesla Model S on Track within the Off-Topic Section forums, part of the Focus RS Forums category; So I just saw this and posted a nice comment on FB on /Drive This Video Reminds Us That the Tesla Model S Is an ...

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    RS Pro Crooked Letta's Avatar
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    Tesla Model S on Track

    So I just saw this and posted a nice comment on FB on /Drive This Video Reminds Us That the Tesla Model S Is an Awful Track Car - The Drive What are your thoughts?

    I see things like "Oh, it's not a track car what do you expect?" I don't agree with this. When a vehicle struggles to complete one lap and is this fast I say it's an engineering failure. Many vehicles are not made for the track that pack power but still hold their own, like an S class MB, or a Bentley. I wouldn't really care if I didn't hear all the time how fast they are 0-60 or in the 1/4, but these results can not be repeated over and over. When something like a Turbo S can do 60 consecutive launches and keep with in .1 secs of it's 0-60 time, this is the benchmark. I'm not saying a car is rubbish if it can not duplicate this, but I am saying that good engineering can achieve this and when a car struggles to complete one lap but is labeled a quick car, what does that mean?

    To me that vehicle just became a huge marketing gimmick for weak minded individuals who only look at numbers. It's like some one who mods the engine to insane level to brag but if they hit the second stage their trans blows up. There is a right way to do things and a chassis should follow it's power plant IMO. They should either detune them and make them more reliable, or engineer a way to make the vehicle work.

    Even if you don't agree with me, I'm sure you can agree that most people think a Tesla is fast when brought up. To me that is propaganda to promote a vehicle. Many companies do it though, why do you need a 460hp Vette to go to car shows and you don't but it will hold down on the track as will mostly any other vehicles that state big numbers and even the ones you look at and just think why, they last more then 2 laps.

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    RS Senior Member DZEFoRS's Avatar
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    Check its vital signs, you know it's still alive... Tesla walks alone, it walks alone...
    bluesteel93 likes this.
    Sold: 2007 Mazdaspeed3
    Current: 2017 Focus RS (built October 27, 2016 - delivery taken January 5, 2017)

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    1 HP = 746 watts. Period. Not open to interpretation. With a Tesla's 90 KWH battery and inefficiencies factored into the equation, the Tesla can deliver Corolla-like power for one hour. 110-120 HP for one hour. Or, five times the Corolla's power for 12 minutes. Then, a lengthy recharge, highly dependent on electrical infrastructure.

    One gallon of gasoline contains 33 KWH of energy. Engines are 25% efficient, max. So gasoline can provide about 8 KWH energy per gallon. Gasoline weighs about 7 LBS per gallon. So a 15 gallon fuel tank can provide 120 KWH of energy at a weight of about 125 LBS including tank. The P90 battery (90 KWH) is about 1200 LBS. So the Tesla battery provides 75% of the power, at about TEN TIMES (1,000%) the weight, as gasoline. THAT is why Teslas suck at tracks or high speed long distance drives. Batteries need to achieve at least a 5 times improvement in efficiency to be remotely competitive with gasoline (at least in terms of all around performance). Batteries need to provide 250 KWH at a weight of about 750 LBS. When that happens, sign me up!

    Elon has NOT rewritten the rules of physics, chemistry, or electricity. Draining a battery in minutes or overheating it in seconds with high current draws (Ridiculous Mode) is a parlor trick foisted on people who know nothing about how the world really works. Elon is, however, smart (he does know how the world works), a good marketer, and good at getting people, and especially, governments, to fund him. Notice that what Elon REALLY cares about, SPACE, is not a publicly traded venture. Cars and solar power give Elon time and money to do what he truly wants to do - go to Mars.

    And, for that, I salute him, as much as one human can salute another.

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    RS Pro Crooked Letta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZFocusRSMan View Post
    1 HP = 746 watts. Period. Not open to interpretation. With a Tesla's 90 KWH battery and inefficiencies factored into the equation, the Tesla can deliver Corolla-like power for one hour. 110-120 HP for one hour. Or, five times the Corolla's power for 12 minutes. Then, a lengthy recharge, highly dependent on electrical infrastructure.

    One gallon of gasoline contains 33 KWH of energy. Engines are 25% efficient, max. So gasoline can provide about 8 KWH energy per gallon. Gasoline weighs about 7 LBS per gallon. So a 15 gallon fuel tank can provide 120 KWH of energy at a weight of about 125 LBS including tank. The P90 battery (90 KWH) is about 1200 LBS. So the Tesla battery provides 75% of the power, at about TEN TIMES (1,000%) the weight, as gasoline. THAT is why Teslas suck at tracks or high speed long distance drives. Batteries need to achieve at least a 5 times improvement in efficiency to be remotely competitive with gasoline (at least in terms of all around performance). Batteries need to provide 250 KWH at a weight of about 750 LBS. When that happens, sign me up!

    Elon has NOT rewritten the rules of physics, chemistry, or electricity. Draining a battery in minutes or overheating it in seconds with high current draws (Ridiculous Mode) is a parlor trick foisted on people who know nothing about how the world really works. Elon is, however, smart (he does know how the world works), a good marketer, and good at getting people, and especially, governments, to fund him. Notice that what Elon REALLY cares about, SPACE, is not a publicly traded venture. Cars and solar power give Elon time and money to do what he truly wants to do - go to Mars.

    And, for that, I salute him, as much as one human can salute another.
    We are getting up there but correct Gasoline engines are only so efficient. I think that number is a little low and it is closer to 30%. The next thing apparently is HCCI which incorporates compression ignition. I see to many problems with this as it is very picky with temps. There are others things out there like Hydrogen that should be getting the push, I'm still uncertain why so much energy was put into battery powered vehicles.

    You summed up what I was saying pretty good

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    RS Master rrPower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZFocusRSMan View Post
    1 HP = 746 watts. Period. Not open to interpretation. With a Tesla's 90 KWH battery and inefficiencies factored into the equation, the Tesla can deliver Corolla-like power for one hour. 110-120 HP for one hour. Or, five times the Corolla's power for 12 minutes. Then, a lengthy recharge, highly dependent on electrical infrastructure.

    One gallon of gasoline contains 33 KWH of energy. Engines are 25% efficient, max. So gasoline can provide about 8 KWH energy per gallon. Gasoline weighs about 7 LBS per gallon. So a 15 gallon fuel tank can provide 120 KWH of energy at a weight of about 125 LBS including tank. The P90 battery (90 KWH) is about 1200 LBS. So the Tesla battery provides 75% of the power, at about TEN TIMES (1,000%) the weight, as gasoline. THAT is why Teslas suck at tracks or high speed long distance drives. Batteries need to achieve at least a 5 times improvement in efficiency to be remotely competitive with gasoline (at least in terms of all around performance). Batteries need to provide 250 KWH at a weight of about 750 LBS. When that happens, sign me up!

    Elon has NOT rewritten the rules of physics, chemistry, or electricity. Draining a battery in minutes or overheating it in seconds with high current draws (Ridiculous Mode) is a parlor trick foisted on people who know nothing about how the world really works. Elon is, however, smart (he does know how the world works), a good marketer, and good at getting people, and especially, governments, to fund him. Notice that what Elon REALLY cares about, SPACE, is not a publicly traded venture. Cars and solar power give Elon time and money to do what he truly wants to do - go to Mars.

    And, for that, I salute him, as much as one human can salute another.
    That, plus all the aero slipperiness that helps it achieve it's range means essentially no air is "wasted" on cooling. The battery should have had enough charge to make at least one hot lap, but heat caught up to it after less than a minute. And while the electric motor itself might be very efficient, the wires and batteries are not when it comes to the sustained high current draws. If it ran on 800V (like the Porsche Mission E) instead of 375V, it could draw a little less than half the current for the same power and lose 4 times less heat due to resistance losses.
    Traded in my FW RS2 with Forged Wheels in August Hidden Content

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    Hydrogen rocks! Batteries (especially environmentally ugly Lithium Ion) suck! We need to make power with the water, sun and wind, and atomic particles (Nuclear), use that power to make hydrogen and pumped-storage or kinetic-energy storage, and live happily with high performance NON COMPUTER DRIVEN automobiles!
    Crooked Letta likes this.

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    RS Pro Crooked Letta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrPower View Post
    That, plus all the aero slipperiness that helps it achieve it's range means essentially no air is "wasted" on cooling. The battery should have had enough charge to make at least one hot lap, but heat caught up to it after less than a minute. And while the electric motor itself might be very efficient, the wires and batteries are not when it comes to the sustained high current draws. If it ran on 800V (like the Porsche Mission E) instead of 375V, it could draw a little less than half the current for the same power and lose 4 times less heat due to resistance losses.
    Yes, heat is electricity's biggest enemy. I don't know too much about the Tesla and it's specifics but it would surprise me if it didn't have water cooling, either for the batteries or motors. You could even go on and say superconductors with liquid Nitrogen but I don't think that has ever been done on a small scale with a moving object like a car $$$$$ lol.

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    Bingo. Obviously you know engineering and physics! Electrics are coming but the ENTIRE energy cycle needs to be considered. Until then, I will just hammer the RS and my KTM SuperAdventure!
    Crooked Letta and notTHATjim like this.

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    RS Pro Crooked Letta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZFocusRSMan View Post
    Hydrogen rocks! Batteries (especially environmentally ugly Lithium Ion) suck! We need to make power with the water, sun and wind, and atomic particles (Nuclear), use that power to make hydrogen and pumped-storage or kinetic-energy storage, and live happily with high performance NON COMPUTER DRIVEN automobiles!
    Best of both worlds really. You can burn it or use it to produce electricity. Many automakers have had concepts of engine converted to Hydrogen, even the Rotary. You look at the carbon footprint of batteries and scratch your head at why any one thinks this is a good idea to produce them on an industrial scale to move something like a large vehicle.

    I never got the autopilot thing either. This reminds me of the episode of Top Gear where Jeremy drives a C63 AMG and it starts of with why doesn't any one just go for a drive, bikers do it all the time. We are a minority when it comes to the few of us who drive for pleasure . I will though for as long as I am able to

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    Yep. I drive to DRIVE. Ride to RIDE. I ski to SKI (not hang out in a bar). Sometimes, the journey (not the destination) IS the objective. We are a shrinking demographic. Oh well...

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