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What's your theory on the RS NOT giving out advertised power numbers? Disappointed.

109K views 492 replies 157 participants last post by  Ducxl 
#1 ·
How are they gonna release a car with false advertisement numbers?! This is a big issue, whether you can get a tune(or whatever) or not in the future to match the numbers that they lied about its still not right. Car should of came of the lot the way it was suppose to be for the number of months ford has been saying what it outputs and hyping.
 
#3 ·
We have way too many tests for it to be a dyno calibration issues.


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#6 ·
It's making 290-300 WHP one time, then losing 40-50 WHP, and fluctuating up and down a little from there, from run to run. It sounds like realistically it's only consistently making 300-310 HP, and only occasionally giving the full 350 HP. That is on 93 octane, as well. Personally, I think the power should be rated based on what is consistently put out, not a number that you only see once in a while. I also highly doubt the numbers will be pretty on the California 91 Octane garbage I have to use. We will have to see how things look when more people dyno and run their cars in the 1/4 mile to get a full picture of how they perform. So far the best time I saw was a 13.55@102.7 on Sport Cup 2's. With 350 HP the RS should be very low 13's, and probably 12's with Sport Cup 2's.
 
#8 ·
1/4 mile times are too variable depending on traction and driver skill. Trap speed is a much better indicator of power, and standard FoRS3s aren't setting the world on fire there. I agree that something is going on, but exactly what is yet to be determined. A lack of power would explain why some people haven't been very impressed with the acceleration.
 
#5 ·
Without seeing any data other than trap speeds and dyno curves, I can only surmise it's either an ECU protection strategy to only put out one full power run and then dial back, OR, it's a very fickle overboost strategy and ones the tuners start getting the ECU figured out they'll probably turn overboost permanently on like they do with the Fiesta and Focus ST's so power stays much more consistent.

Personally I'm pretty gutted to keep seeing dyno sets with 50wHP variance. It's definitely not cool for Ford to let the car into the wild knowing full well that most owners would be big-time enthusiasts with data-driven expectations.
 
#10 ·
Hey man!
 
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#12 ·
What was the resolution for the Cobras? I only remember the controversy, not the resolution.


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#16 ·
Stating the obvious but the consensus is inconsistent power production on most if not all US RSes. If current owners who have taken posession of their cars and are experiencing this issue, then it needs to be reported to the dealer so it can funnel up to the ford reps and get word to the right people in ford to have awareness and be looking at the issue. Maybe they are aware, who knows but we shouldnt assume. Whether your an engineer or mechanic or no nothing about tuning, etc (like me) it should be reported whether you intend for ypur local ford service to look at the car or not...ford needs to hear these complaints from all the owners experiencing the issue - make your voices heard while the gurus on this forum continue to investigate the issue...just my .02 cents


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#18 ·
Okay, I just posted on Ford performance's Facebook as well. Most likely nothing will come of it. But I feel we all need to try if we are experiencing these issues.
 
#22 ·
ford made the openings on the front of the car as large as possible, they sealed around the rad and fmic so that as much air as possible would pass thru, they used a grill mesh that has 86% flow thru. my opinion is that this was all designed to cool the charge temps to a decent level on a racetrack at 100mph. Not on a dyno with a box fan. I think the charge temps are reaching unsafe levels (according to ford) on the dyno in one pull. if you want the car to pull consistently high numbers on the rollers you need a cooler that's designed for it. if you have never held a ford factory fmic then you just don't know what your dealing with, its a tin can compare to any aftermarket cooler out there.

A 2.3l cranking out 350hp/tq? why would that need high octane and cool charge temps? laugh out loud
 
#24 ·
People are having issues on the street too, not just the dyno.


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#29 ·
I think guys with dyno numbers that show the car way down on power should be bringing this up with the dealer. Don't get me wrong it's great that people like @gte are trying to get to the bottom of it, but the sooner people with quantifiable problems talk to the dealer the sooner Ford will see the issue.

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#40 ·
#38 ·
I had that thought too, but then the cars would be performing better on the track (1/4 mile ET).


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#37 ·
Interesting Cobb has their RS already, but has not released any dyno data.
 
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#42 ·
This is what concerns me the most. There's already a few EU tunes but crickets in NA. What's the hold up? Mountune and Cobb should have something by now, Mountune has a trans upgrade for a 250whp car? Come on!!
 
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#39 ·
I ran against other cars whose owners @rader1 knows. It is not a dyno issue it is a power issue. I am very disappointed right now in Ford and need them to remedy the situation. I am a pure stock guy and I need Ford to step up to the plate and fix this for me. I know the car is not making the power based on real world testing as do others in my area.
 
#41 · (Edited)
This is definitely frustrating to hear! I don't even have my car yet but to drop(what to me) is a lot of money on something that falls way short of what was promoted is unacceptable. I don't feel I need to improve a car to get it where it should have been stock...I want to build on an already strong platform. Makes me wonder if I should just save a **** ton of money and go buy another speed3...I was quite happy with what stage 2 got me.

I feel like I'm in this now and have been very excited for the RS. I want to just wait things out, but frustrating none the less. I just really don't want to get the car and feel like I've held all of this excitement for something less. Really looking to see what tunes can provide and add to the RS, I'm not going to give up on it, just hate to see these results.
 
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#45 ·
It's a lot of money for all of us. Yes, even with my collection $40k is a lot of cash. Make a smart, informed decision.

Ford had a software recalibration, new mufflers and an extrude honed intake. Can't remember how far it was off. I want to say 27hp and 20ft/lbs. Been a long time since then. As I remember it took about 6 month to get the fixes. Ford made up for it on the later cars. Terminator, GT500, Gen2 Lightning would make rated power at wheels.
Yeah, I had assumed Ford would never let this happen again. I'm honestly pretty shocked by what we are seeing here.
 
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#52 ·
We have an older GTO Pontiac at work that we used for R&D, back when it was standard before any modifications we would get roughly 215kw at the wheels on the first run, after a number of runs the power would drop dramatically, I'd often do this as a demonstration during tuning courses, this test was also best done on a hot day to show the dramatic drop in power as the air temp went through the roof, our chassis dyno can datalog OBD data back to the dyno, on the first run the ignition timing would be say 18 deg(still not optimal for these engines) and after subsequent runs where the power would fall to say 160kw at the wheels, the timing would be around 6deg and under bonnet air temp would be through the roof. When retuning these cars huge gains could be gained by JUST changing the timing, on a stock engine around 24-26 deg would give a tasty increase at the wheels.

The manufacturer has to allow the tune for worst case scenario, 40 deg cels day, going up a really long steep hill with a full load on board.
 
#54 ·
LOL, yeah mate I know how they work! Depending where the intake air temp sensor is huge heat soak can occur WITH the bonnet up AND high velocity fans on! and whilst the other shops look like they have nice dyno shops, our building(not room) was purpose built with two 12 foot axial fans in the roof supplying air into the dyno room as well as our cooling fans. We also have two engine dyno cells.


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#59 · (Edited)
I'm expecting my RS in Aug. I haven't heard of anyone here in Australia with these issues (check the Aus forum) but delivery of the RS only began a few days ago here, so probably too soon to tell.

Ref dyno and tune other than in US though, this is from Italy back in May:

FORD FOCUS M.Y.2016 TUNING STAGE1 RELEASED!!! - Biesse Racing

In summary:

They report 350hp and 480 Nm torque on pre-tune runs (ie. standard car from factory showing figures as per Ford's claimed).
They claim 393hp, 567Nm (418 ft.lb) and 0.5 sec improvement 0-100 kph (0-62 mph) from their stage 1 tune (apparently available since May).

Text Plot Line Diagram Design


Early video of dyno run here:



I'd love to think these are not hugely exaggerated tuner marketing figures but ....
 
#60 ·
I think the key is confirming that the car performs and is tuned identical to the EURO model.

The thing that gets me nervous is comments like this from Car and Driver, "Ford has confirmed that when the 2016 Focus RS hits stateside dealerships in the spring of 2016, its powertain, performance, and styling will be virtually unchanged from the car that debuted earlier overseas."

In other words, the car's powertrain, performance, and styling will be almost or nearly unchanged. Ford needs to come out and say that it is tuned and performs identical to the EURO model. Or confirm it doesn't. Maybe if enough people comment and bug Ford Performances Facebook Page...https://www.facebook.com/FordPerformance
 
#95 ·
I think the key is confirming that the car performs and is tuned identical to the EURO model.

The thing that gets me nervous is comments like this from Car and Driver, "Ford has confirmed that when the 2016 Focus RS hits stateside dealerships in the spring of 2016, its powertain, performance, and styling will be virtually unchanged from the car that debuted earlier overseas."
EPA hold reported here: All The Things No One Told Me About the Ford Focus RS - The Drive

USDM cars only reporting problems

Ford recently went bat**** crazy and went full lockdown on info given to owners via @FordService and this forum regarding when and what is happening at port modcenters.

This seems an awful lot like Ford is had to put a last minute emissions ECU map on the car and hasn't had time to test the effects of that change. And is hoping nobody will notice.
 
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